Climate Change/Global Warming Hysteria thread

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Surprise
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Surprise »

Solar panels became nett enery producers some years ago. All power sources require maintenance. That isn't controversial either. No one source of renewable energy is going to be a "solution". The panels in that solar farm are only 8% efficient. There are commercial panels that are triple that efficiency now. Their three mile by five mile solare farm now only has to be a third of that size, much less than that if the power requirements are reduced.

There has to be focus on consumption as well. Homes can be much more energy efficient for not much more cost. You don't have to replace the total current energy requirements if the requirements are reduced.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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Or you could put cheap solar panels on every home, insulate them, paint the roofs white and require trees for cooling. The problem is all of that costs money, and power is still dirt cheap many places.

Most people do not want to, or can't, put money up front to save it later.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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So, we get to the endgame. No point wasting anyones time on if global warming is real or not, we can't afford to anything about it anyway. Thread closed.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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Surprise wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:08 am
So, we get to the endgame. No point wasting anyones time on if global warming is real or not, we can't afford to anything about it anyway.
I don't know if that is true. I'm not even sure if it can be determined.

It reminds me of the starfish story ...
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Surprise wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:08 am
So, we get to the endgame. No point wasting anyones time on if global warming is real or not, we can't afford to anything about it anyway. Thread closed.
If you really want to close the thread, better include this guy ==> :godwin:
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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gnome wrote:
Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:19 am
CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:Global warmer: "In period x the global temperature increased by y caused by z!!1!"

Denier: "Yeah but in period a when there was a shitload of z the global temperature decreased by b - How do you explain that?"
Both sides of this, and most other political arguments, are happy to change the subject before hearing a rebuttal or a redirect, as long as their argument was the last one aired.

What's funny is how much repetition there is of arguments that in a real public discourse would have proceeded further towards something meaningful.
Really?
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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robinson wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:54 pm
Surprise wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:08 am
So, we get to the endgame. No point wasting anyones time on if global warming is real or not, we can't afford to anything about it anyway.
I don't know if that is true. I'm not even sure if it can be determined.

It reminds me of the starfish story ...
Scientsts often measure all kinds of things. Scientists researching climate science measure the temperature as well as other components that make up the climate. You might not be sure the temperature can be determined, the scientists have solved the problem many years ago, now they at the stage of refining the process.
Wood For Trees interactive Global Temperature Plot.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Hotarubi »

robinson wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 1:48 am
gnome wrote:
Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:19 am
CHARLEY_BIGTIME wrote:Global warmer: "In period x the global temperature increased by y caused by z!!1!"

Denier: "Yeah but in period a when there was a shitload of z the global temperature decreased by b - How do you explain that?"
Both sides of this, and most other political arguments, are happy to change the subject before hearing a rebuttal or a redirect, as long as their argument was the last one aired.

What's funny is how much repetition there is of arguments that in a real public discourse would have proceeded further towards something meaningful.
Really?
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by sparks »

Solar panels don't last very long. Further, they have a helluva carbon footprint. And after all this time, they're still fuckingly inefficient.

No, that's not the answer.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Solar power by way of heat is the better choice, preferably not connected to the grid.

Parabolic mirror + good sturdy 19th century style reciprocating steam engine; I mean 19th century style except for the boiler.

I was kidding around at the beginning of the last sentence, but the more I think about it, the more I really want one. :wink:
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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sparks wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:43 pm
Solar panels don't last very long. Further, they have a helluva carbon footprint. And after all this time, they're still fuckingly inefficient.

No, that's not the answer.
What do you call very long? They have a lifetime of at least 20 years. They are nett energy producers. Efficiency and technology are improving. They are not an "answer", there is no magic bullet.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Witness »

Image
Pre/post refers to installation before or after 2000.

They last for decades. See https://energyinformative.org/lifespan-solar-panels/

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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by robinson »

We are fossil fuel’s are expensive or very hard to get solar is very efficient
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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I know somebody in the business of installing solar panels for lights for billboards. The biggest problem they have is people stealing the solar panels. The reason solar panels are used is because there are no electric lines making solar much more cost effective.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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The Award-Winning Quintessential Solar Thread

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38243&hilit=solar

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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

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Wow
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Anaxagoras »

National Review review's Michael Moore's new movie:

https://news.yahoo.com/michael-moore-em ... 42176.html
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Rob Lister »

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:02 am
National Review review's Michael Moore's new movie:

https://news.yahoo.com/michael-moore-em ... 42176.html
That was a worthy article, but I have issues with the passivity of the last para; the conclusion, so to speak.
Ideas have consequences. If the idea is accepted that the world faces a fundamental crisis of overpopulation, there will be men of action prepared to do something about it. Compared with the havoc they inflict, green-energy swindles will be the least of our problems.
Emphasis mine.

Accepted by whom? What will they do? Havoc how?

There is no doubt in my mind that overpopulation is a crisis and that letting that crisis self-regulate to its own solution is begging for a bigger crisis, so I want that havoc to which he refers better defined.

The movie's premise--or the reviewer's interpretation of it--is a strawman. Virgin forests are not being devastated for the production of energy to any meaningful extent, they're being harvested for their lumber and stripped to grow food; there aren't enough caves to go around and one can't eat a tree.

To the extent AGW is a problem, it is trivially solved: 90% nuclear, 20% NG, 20% wind*.

To the extent overpopulation is a problem, I have no solution that won't stack corpses like cordwood from horizon to horizon.

* From an engineering standpoint, ideally you want 150% so private solar will suffice for the shortfall so long as the utilities are not forced into buying what they don't need, much less paying retail for it.

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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by gnome »

I had been under the impression that successful modernization tends to restrain birth rates... is that no longer considered true, or not enough? That sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
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Re: Climate Change/Global Warming/AGW featuring graphs

Post by Rob Lister »

gnome wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 10:39 am
I had been under the impression that successful modernization tends to restrain birth rates... is that no longer considered true, or not enough? That sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
I think it is very true, but nowhere close to enough. Even at only 7.5 billion, we're already swimming in our own filth, and we're making more a hell of a lot faster than we're cleaning it up.

Maybe not 'us' personally ... and therein might lie the problem: the folks most adept to solving the issue (money, resources) don't really live or even see the issue (our side of the fence is very green).

But like I said, I have no solution. Other than a nuclear one. The bad nuclear, in this case.