Uh oh. Venusians.

We are the Borg.
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 20531
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:46 pm
Title: Bruce of all Bruces
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Bruce »

Doctor X wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:09 am Protomolecule.

– J.D.
I'm sad about the direction that The Expanse has taken. They started so good, then gradually got weird.
Such potential!
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87267
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Considering that there have been a few Venus probes (that went trough the atmosphere), contamination maybe?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
ceptimus
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by ceptimus »

We see phosphine in Jupiter and in stars. The scientists say they have tried to account for all the sources of phosphine they can think of in Venus's atmosphere - they say that it must be continually being produced because it's not stable, long-term on Venus. Phosphine production requires energy input, and the scientists have tried to allow for inputs like sunlight, lightning, volcanoes, and even things like meteor impacts. But they say the levels are about ten thousand times higher than they should be, and are also higher near the equator than at the poles.

I'm not an expert, and my guess is that the gas is more likely due to some weird chemical process the scientists haven't thought of, than a result of biology: but it's still an interesting discovery and worth investigating further - sending probes to collect atmospheric samples and such.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87267
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Life in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, fed as much or more by the internal heat of the planet as the sun.

Wasn't there a story by John Varley that featured this, though not as the main plot? :coolspecs:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 20531
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:46 pm
Title: Bruce of all Bruces
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Bruce »

Phosphine is unstable in what? Earth's atmosphere? If course! In the cold vacuum of space with nothing around to react with? Its plenty stable. I have a bottle of it in the fridge at work and its doing just fine. If I can keep a bottle of it in a fridge on earth, it can do just fine on Jupiter.
Such potential!
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 31583
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Witness »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:31 pm Life in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, fed as much or more by the internal heat of the planet as the sun.
I'd be interested to know how that is meant to work. :notsure:
User avatar
ceptimus
Posts: 1366
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:04 pm
Location: UK

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by ceptimus »

Bruce wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:03 am Phosphine is unstable in what? Earth's atmosphere? If course! In the cold vacuum of space with nothing around to react with? Its plenty stable. I have a bottle of it in the fridge at work and its doing just fine. If I can keep a bottle of it in a fridge on earth, it can do just fine on Jupiter.
You can read the scientists' paper, published at Nature.
Photochemical model

Within the atmosphere of Venus, PH3 is destroyed by photochemically generated radical species, by near-surface thermal decomposition and by photodissociation within/above the clouds. Since PH3 itself scavenges chemically reactive radicals and atoms, for example, OH, H, O and Cl, the presence of PH3 suppresses these species, increasing its lifetime. Previously published models of Venus’s atmosphere did not include the scavenging effect of PH3, so we developed our own model.
They spent over a year studying possible chemical pathways for phosphine production on Venus before publishing the paper, and they waited till the microwave signals were independently confirmed by a separate telescope team. They do appear to be proper scientists not making wild claims.
User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 73190
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Doctor X »

Bruce wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 pm
Doctor X wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:09 am Protomolecule.
I'm sad about the direction that The Expanse has taken. They started so good, then gradually got weird.
The books are different and the series is behind. Unlike the Game of the Thrones, the people behind the series have not decided to go on their own. They make changes, some are not so good, but do not change the story like GoT did.

"Doors and corners!"

– J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image
User avatar
Witness
Posts: 31583
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Witness »

In A Complete Fluke, A European Spacecraft Is About To Fly Past Venus – And Could Look For Signs Of Life

Earlier this week, scientists announced the discovery of phosphine on Venus, a potential signature of life. Now, in an amazing coincidence, a European and Japanese spacecraft is about to fly past the planet – and could confirm the discovery.

On Monday, September 14, a team of scientists said they had found evidence for phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus. The region in which it was found, about 50 kilometers above the surface, is outside the harsh conditions on the Venusian surface, and could be a habitat for airborne microbes.

To find out for sure, we will need to send a mission into the Venusian atmosphere to look for such life. Several proposals are on the table, with the closest being a spacecraft from the U.S. company Rocket Lab that could send a probe into the atmosphere as soon as 2023.

As far as we know, the phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus could have been produced by life, although it's possible it could also be produced by an unknown non-biological process. Before missions start launching to Venus to find out, however, scientists will want to know for sure if phosphine is really present.

And as luck would have it, a joint mission comprising two spacecraft – one from the European Space Agency (ESA) and the other from the Japanese space agency (JAXA) – is about to fly past Venus that could tell us for sure.

BepiColombo, launched in 2018, is on its way to enter orbit around Mercury, the innermost planet of the Solar System. But to achieve that it plans to use two flybys of Venus to slow itself down, one on October 15, 2020, and another on August 10, 2021.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanoc ... 3539fa2681




And in other news:

Russia's space agency chief declares Venus a "Russian planet"


Moscow — If there is life on Venus, it might want to start learning Russian. The boss of Russia's government space agency has claimed it as a "Russian planet."

The bold territorial claim comes on the heels of scientific research suggesting life could exist on Earth's celestial neighbor, the second planet from the sun.

Roscosmos chief Dmitry Rogozin, who's known for espousing unconventional scientific views — and for frequently sarcastic anti-Western rhetoric — said this week that Russia wants to send its own mission to Venus, in addition to an already-proposed joint venture with the United States called "Venera-D."

"We think that Venus is a Russian planet, so we shouldn't lag behind," Rogozin, a former deputy prime minister, told reporters on Tuesday. He noted that the Soviet Union was "the first and the only one" to land a spacecraft on Venus.

Image
Russian President Vladimir Putin (C) and state space corporation Roscosmos head Dmitry Rogozin (L) listen to Director of Russian rocket engine manufacturer NPO Energomash Igor Arbuzov in Khimki, outside Moscow April 12, 2019.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venus-russ ... ef-claims/
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87267
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Well the USSR was the first to soft land a probe, though they never made a territorial claim back then.

Never the 1960s space treaty. It's theirs if they can take it and defend it.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
DJ
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by DJ »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:50 pm Well the USSR was the first to soft land a probe, though they never made a territorial claim back then.

Never the 1960s space treaty. It's theirs if they can take it and defend it.
Loving the new Space Force. :D :freedom:
User avatar
Fid
Posts: 1367
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:45 pm
Location: The island of Atlanta

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Fid »

... The stars were suns, but so far away they were just little points of light ... The scale of the universe suddenly opened up to me. It was a kind of religious experience. There was a magnificence to it, a grandeur, a scale which has never left me. Never ever left me.
Carl Sagan
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by robinson »

I loved those stories
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28493
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Anaxagoras »

Ah, too bad. It was fun while it lasted.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 28493
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Anaxagoras »

Re-analysis of the 267-GHz ALMA observations of Venus: No statistically significant detection of phosphine
Context: ALMA observations of Venus at 267 GHz have been presented in the literature that show the apparent presence of phosphine (PH3) in its atmosphere. Phosphine has currently no evident production routes on the planet's surface or in its atmosphere.
Aims: The aim of this work is to assess the statistical reliability of the line detection by independent re-analysis of the ALMA data.
Methods: The ALMA data were reduced as in the published study, following the provided scripts. First the spectral analysis presented in the study was reproduced and assessed. Subsequently, the spectrum was statistically evaluated, including its dependence on selected ALMA baselines.
Results: We find that the 12th-order polynomial fit to the spectral passband utilised in the published study leads to spurious results. Following their recipe, five other >10 sigma lines can be produced in absorption or emission within 60 km/s from the PH3 1-0 transition frequency by suppressing the surrounding noise. Our independent analysis shows a feature near the PH3 frequency at a ~2 sigma level, below the common threshold for statistical significance. Since the spectral data have a non-Gaussian distribution, we consider a feature at such level as statistically unreliable that cannot be linked to a false positive probability.
Conclusions: We find that the published 267-GHz ALMA data provide no statistical evidence for phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus.
(That's the whole paper.) Actually, just the abstract; my bad.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 87267
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Not quite Chicago

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Not directly on topic, but here's a cool recent artist's conception of the Venusian surface, courtesy of NASA no less. 8)

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap201027.html
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by robinson »

We should just seed Venus with life
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
User avatar
robinson
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Title: Pretty much dead already
Location: USA

Re: Uh oh. Venusians.

Post by robinson »

Get that second planet ready for tourism
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris