Venezuela Meltdown

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
shuize
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by shuize » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:35 pm

ed wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:23 pm
Conspicuous by its absence in much of the mainstream news coverage of Venezuela’s political crisis is the word “socialism.” Yes, every sensible observer agrees that Latin America’s once-richest country, sitting atop the world’s largest proven oil reserves, is an economic basket case, a humanitarian disaster, and a dictatorship whose demise cannot come soon enough.

But … socialist? Perish the thought.

Or so goes a line of argument that insists socialism’s good name shouldn’t be tarred by the results of experience. On Venezuela, what you’re likelier to read is that the crisis is the product of corruption, cronyism, populism, authoritarianism, resource-dependency, U.S. sanctions and trickery, even the residues of capitalism itself. Just don’t mention the S-word because, you know, it’s working really well in Denmark.

Curiously, that’s not how the Venezuelan regime’s admirers used to speak of “21st century socialism,” as it was dubbed by Hugo Chávez. The late Venezuelan president, said Britain’s Jeremy Corbyn, “showed us there is a different and a better way of doing things. It’s called socialism, it’s called social justice, and it’s something that Venezuela has made a big step toward.” Noam Chomsky was similarly enthusiastic when he praised Chávez in 2009. “What’s so exciting about at last visiting Venezuela,” the linguist said, is that “I can see how a better world is being created and can speak to the person who’s inspired it.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/25/opin ... e=Homepage
In the NYT, amazingly.
Yes, funny how that works. Years ago, I met people (foreigners) in Japan who loved Chavez. They loved Chomsky, too. They definitely weren't afraid to use the term "socialist" back then.

Unfortunately, I think they've all left Japan. I really would have liked to ask them how things are working out in Venezuela these days.

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Doctor X
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:29 pm

They blame Bush for "turning" St. Chavez away from True Socialism.

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Skeeve
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Meanwhile: Venezuela's 'interim president' urges military to defect amid promise of possible amnesty for Nicolas Maduro
Venezuela’s self-proclaimed “interim president” has appealed to the country’s military to abandon President Nicolas Maduro and join his side, asking citizens to “extend a hand of friendship” to soldiers to convince them to defect.

Juan Guaido, the 35-year-old head of the opposition-controlled national assembly, called for massive protests next week at an open-air press conference in Caracas, interrupted by frequent cheers of “presidente”.

Hours before, in an interview aired by Latino broadcaster Univision, he suggested to Mr Maduro that he would guarantee safe passage out of the country.

“This amnesty, these guarantees are on the table for everyone who is prepared to put themselves on the side of the constitution in order to recover the democratic order,” he said.

Some American diplomats on Friday evacuated Caracas under police escort, obeying an order from Mr Maduro to leave despite Mr Guido urging them not to.

It was also reported that Russian military contractors had flown into Venezuela to beef up security for Mr Maduro.
Well, if we can believe our news or their news, or even "/uk.news.yahoo.com/" news, it sounds like Juan Valdez (joke) is still trying to court the army, now trying with the 'rank and file' soldiers.... so far, no joy...

Begs the question, if Maduro is a ruthless dictator, how is this guy still alive?
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Skeeve
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:31 pm

This is hilarious, and from the other side of the pond (Reuters):
Exclusive: Refiner Citgo prepares to fend off Venezuela's opposition government
MEXICO CITY/CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela’s most important foreign asset, its $10 billion U.S. refining arm Citgo Petroleum, is hunkering down to arm itself with a legal strategy to block efforts for its board to be removed and its revenues diverted to an opposition government, sources close to the talks said.
Opposition Government == Juan Guaido the self-appointed presidente...

And it looks like at least one oil interest would rather deal with Maduro.
...
Juan Guaido, the head of the opposition-controlled congress who proclaimed himself president this week, is considering naming a new team to lead Citgo, two sources told Reuters.
...
Citgo is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Petroleos de Venezuela, or PDVSA, but it has not been able to send its revenues, in the form of dividends, to Venezuela due to U.S. sanctions.
:Popcorn:
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Pyrrho
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:34 pm

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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gnome
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by gnome » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:40 am

I would expect someone to secure some kind of power base before announcing control. If he doesn't have the oil, and he doesn't have the military, how does he expect to press his claim? I suppose foreign powers may have offered something. Maybe even us. But that's kind of shaky.
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Witness
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 am

“Enough already!’ Venezuela’s highest ranking military diplomat breaks with Maduro

The military attaché at the Venezuelan Embassy in Washington, Col. José Luis Silva, broke with the Nicolás Maduro regime Saturday and urged other armed forces members to recognize Juan Guaidó as the legitimate interim president of the South American nation.

“As the Venezuelan defense attaché in the United States, I do not recognize Mr. Nicolás Maduro as president of Venezuela,” Silva told el Nuevo Herald in a telephone interview from Washington, D.C.

“My message to all armed forces members, to everyone who carries a gun, is to please let’s not attack the people. We are also part of the people, and we’ve had enough of supporting a government that has betrayed the most basic principles and sold itself to other countries,” he added.

Silva, like all other Venezuelan diplomatic mission staffers in the United States, was ordered to return home after Maduro announced he was breaking diplomatic relations with Washington because it had recognized Guaidó as the legitimate president of Venezuela.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 29345.html

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Skeeve
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:04 am

Witness wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 am
“Enough already!’ Venezuela’s highest ranking military diplomat breaks with Maduro

The military attaché at the Venezuelan Embassy in Washington, Col. José Luis Silva, broke with the Nicolás Maduro regime Saturday and urged other armed forces members to recognize Juan Guaidó as the legitimate interim president of the South American nation.

“As the Venezuelan defense attaché in the United States, I do not recognize Mr. Nicolás Maduro as president of Venezuela,” Silva told el Nuevo Herald in a telephone interview from Washington, D.C.
...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 29345.html
Interesting that this 'defense attache' (in the United States) is the one hi-ranking officer to recognize Juan Guaido....meanwhile...
Spain, France, Germany give Venezuela's Maduro ultimatum
Madrid (AFP) - Spain, France and Germany on Saturday gave embattled Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro an ultimatum, saying they would recognise opposition leader Juan Guaido as president unless he calls elections within eight days.

The ultimatum comes as international pressure mounts on the Maduro regime to agree a new vote, with the United States, Canada and major South American players already recognising Guaido, who proclaimed himself acting president of Venezuela during massive street rallies this week.
...
Spain had wanted the EU to take a tough line on Maduro by calling for immediate elections, failing which the bloc as a whole would recognise Guaido, the 35-year-old head of Venezuela's National Assembly.

But countries like Austria, Greece and Portugal are much more reluctant.
Interesting graphic from another article...
Image
Article link:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46999668

Just one or two more graphics
Image
Image

Looks like the shit really started hitting the fan in 2014....
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Anaxagoras » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:39 am

Of course the seeds were sown under Chavez. He just got lucky by dying before the chickens came home to roost.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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ed
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by ed » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:12 pm

Somebody has to pay for it eventually.
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Skeeve
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:00 pm

Obama signs U.S. sanctions law on Venezuela officials
Interesting that this also occurred in 2014...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Thursday signed legislation to impose sanctions on Venezuelan government officials accused of violating protesters’ rights during demonstrations earlier this year.

Congress had approved the measure last week and sent it to him for his signature.

The measure would deny visas and freeze assets of officials involved in what the law considers a crackdown on political opponents during three months of street protests in Venezuela over crime and the economy.

Those protests sparked violence that killed 43 people, including demonstrators, government supporters and security officials.

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro accused Obama of hypocrisy for enabling the sanctions a day after announcing an effort to normalize relations with Communist-run Cuba, which has been under U.S. trade sanctions for decades.
Yea well...
Interestingly enough, Trump follows in Barry (no balls) Obama's footsteps, guess a broken clock is right once or twice a day...what ever...

Full disclosure: I believe the socialist model will eventually fail. Maduro is the mother of all dicks.

Venezuela depended heavily on oil, and when the bottom dropped out on the price of crude...the shit hit the fan.

We have been "helping the collapse" of Venezuela by our sanctions alone if nothing else. But we also helped tank the price of crude oil.
Looking back in time we have this: US Exports of Crude Oil

Code: Select all

U.S. Exports of Crude Oil (Thousand Barrels per Day)
Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
Year	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
  1920	15	29	29	23	25	21	23	18	26	25	27	27
  1921	24	28	24	25	28	20	17	29	29	24	29	17
  1922	23	21	26	31	25	28	29	25	38	24	29	36
  1923	25	24	33	50	43	87	50	50	53	42	47	68
  1924	49	58	50	52	60	51	45	40	63	48	48	34
  1925	37	40	34	27	44	42	42	47	31	42	25	28
  1926	38	37	31	44	59	41	56	35	46	33	45	41
  1927	39	42	39	39	45	47	35	45	43	50	43	55
  1928	40	43	49	43	48	63	54	61	50	65	56	49
  1929	64	60	52	58	62	87	101	72	66	93	86	67
  1930	58	62	63	63	71	84	64	78	65	70	59	43
  1931	62	61	51	61	73	85	85	92	77	77	82	35
  1932	51	65	67	96	95	93	73	92	70	82	44	69
  1933	62	67	69	98	86	145	146	101	106	125	110	85
  1934	74	90	83	131	120	126	133	119	136	106	156	79
  1935	76	100	106	126	149	186	188	160	166	155	143	132
  1936	99	120	102	125	142	160	144	179	168	152	138	118
  1937	116	135	103	163	219	206	205	239	220	216	222	165
  1938	192	190	197	252	252	247	234	226	186	219	187	158
  1939	144	172	160	207	279	194	236	193	231	224	177	150
  1940	66	61	84	96	142	129	148	125	115	109	114	67
  1941	54	48	64	83	140	131	118	106	97	82	85	82
  1942	49	48	61	99	120	120	109	131	108	105	94	66
  1943	65	86	80	139	152	144	159	129	115	109	114	67
  1944	80	66	68	96	101	121	113	109	112	96	100	59
  1945	42	57	64	89	103	97	114	107	106	116	113	75
  1946	62	71	88	121	117	111	138	141	138	137	111	102
  1947	80	92	105	133	154	125	167	134	136	120	128	146
  1948	97	91	101	118	108	114	118	128	112	110	106	99
  1949	69	69	60	122	93	102	92	110	87	94	100	88
  1950	69	83	69	99	95	103	106	100	88	130	108	94
  1951	94	88	85	121	58	78	75	76	73	63	62	69
  1952	74	76	95	111	55	80	61	63	55	49	60	95
  1953	71	72	70	94	52	61	40	43	37	38	35	44
  1954	51	28	28	47	41	46	35	44	17	49	35	26
  1955	12	35	27	48	38	35	29	38	29	28	29	34
  1956	32	17	37	20	40	29	24	38	27	47	285	340
  1957	244	282	455	308	119	58	39	33	25	32	31	35
  1958	14	8	27	21	16	7	10	11	6	11	10	2
  1959	11	3	6	8	9	6	6	8	5	8	4	8
  1960	9	10	8	9	4	15	8	3	8	11	0	17
  1961	4	11	11	11	7	15	6	10	4	6	13	9
  1962	3	5	7	3	11	1	6	6	3	0	9	5
  1963	6	4	3	6	5	4	5	6	3	6	4	5
  1964	4	3	8	3	6	5	3	4	2	3	0	4
  1965	3	2	0	6	0	2	14	0	0	6	3	0
  1966	4	0	3	10	0	4	8	6	3	3	3	4
  1967	1	0	3	8	0	61	275	264	201	46	4	2
  1968	8	10	1	5	3	8	0	3	3	4	13	3
  1969	0	8	6	3	7	0	0	5	3	5	8	3
  1970	3	0	2	3	0	10	3	0	0	63	54	24
  1971	0	0	0	10	0	0	0	0	5	1	0	0
  1972	0	0	0	6	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
  1973	0	0	0	0	4	0	7	0	5	0	0	6
  1974	17	10	0	1	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	0
  1975	27	34	11	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
  1976	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	12	0	18	30	34
  1977	13	59	32	17	89	10	53	37	91	85	45	69
  1978	98	8	60	92	124	195	138	182	251	272	218	251
  1979	177	288	370	260	171	235	244	245	175	179	264	215
  1980	322	332	330	192	326	365	238	78	322	309	289	343
  1981	339	198	210	198	312	123	257	204	194	226	278	189
  1982	238	304	321	174	262	94	229	304	184	270	262	193
  1983	117	262	174	88	280	144	145	172	177	140	186	95
  1984	153	185	236	172	219	222	108	190	162	141	202	185
  1985	144	221	189	236	250	226	154	241	188	123	286	197
  1986	159	162	212	94	98	240	65	233	161	151	115	159
  1987	84	284	150	247	69	116	149	141	116	84	164	220
  1988	206	146	213	114	138	138	186	152	119	166	148	129
  1989	137	208	156	139	131	243	69	162	32	61	120	247
  1990	132	102	132	111	112	88	89	64	68	104	137	162
  1991	50	152	137	162	165	78	139	55	109	92	126	133
  1992	118	22	105	23	106	107	53	133	68	106	111	107
  1993	129	166	139	73	112	150	62	55	107	62	67	63
  1994	110	116	41	120	118	107	84	72	61	138	102	118
  1995	113	95	68	155	73	101	103	61	74	50	118	127
  1996	89	92	94	148	37	130	139	44	147	134	172	96
  1997	141	229	136	92	26	57	70	110	122	152	32	131
  1998	231	197	99	163	144	63	104	51	34	87	60	90
  1999	107	119	95	332	88	123	120	132	27	56	83	133
  2000	176	30	144	124	34	9	15	17	23	9	2	16
  2001	18	24	37	5	64	15	11	28	8	11	9	12
  2002	11	4	8	8	7	5	33	9	7	4	10	2
  2003	10	5	10	12	15	45	7	4	3	14	21	4
  2004	6	8	19	55	26	45	18	13	35	25	42	30
  2005	40	19	36	45	55	21	34	17	24	17	48	24
  2006	27	15	29	26	27	33	13	15	21	37	24	27
  2007	9	25	34	19	36	52	27	42	34	11	20	20
  2008	12	20	29	14	19	22	29	40	39	43	31	46
  2009	36	30	30	27	53	57	31	35	42	72	46	65
  2010	33	58	45	37	36	31	69	36	61	23	32	40
  2011	72	30	36	41	37	36	73	34	35	51	64	53
  2012	78	73	71	41	83	46	77	60	68	67	73	71
  2013	109	132	107	138	130	124	104	71	105	119	253	220
  2014	248	247	251	282	309	394	421	391	349	376	521	421
  2015	495	442	438	599	527	445	546	461	410	500	320	392
  2016	490	454	596	624	788	530	536	720	775	502	606	468
  2017	711	1,146	930	1,128	1,098	865	956	817	1,463	1,720	1,544	1,522
  2018	1,342	1,605	1,671	1,756	2,005	2,200	2,139	1,749	2,116	2,326		
There is a very good graph at the site posted. Long story shorter, in 2013 we started ramping up our exports of crude oil.
It does not take much to see this helping to drop the price of crude oil....

Like I said, I believe Socialism is a dead end, and will die eventually. What I find distasteful is how we seem to be so eager to help it along.
To the point now where these Bozo's in Washington are blustering about 'boots on the ground.'

Mother fuckers!
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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WildCat
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by WildCat » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 pm

You think our oil exports were just to hurt Venezuela?
Do you have questions about God?

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:43 pm

If Venezuela had kept a market economy instead of trying to subsidize Communism on oil alone ...

Well too late for that.
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shuize
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by shuize » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:52 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:43 pm
If Venezuela had kept a market economy instead of trying to subsidize Communism on oil alone ...

Well too late for that.
Exactly. Or used their oil profits to kickstart some other industries while prices were high rather than giving all the money away to buy political support.

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Witness
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:16 am

Witness wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 am
“Enough already!’ Venezuela’s highest ranking military diplomat breaks with Maduro
But Venezuela's defense minister, general Vladimir Padrino, has reaffirmed his loyalty to Maduro (https://www.lemonde.fr/international/ar ... _3210.html, in French):

Image

Needs more golden braid. :P

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by WildCat » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:30 am

What's with all the decorations? How many wars has Venezuela been in recently that a military man can be so decorated?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:34 am

WildCat wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:33 pm
You think our oil exports were just to hurt Venezuela?
No I do not think our oil exports were just to hurt Venezuela.

US spending bill lifts 40-year ban on crude oil exports
The move is part of a $1.1 trillion (£738bn) spending bill approved by the Senate on Friday that will fund the US government until 2016.

Oil prices rose on Friday following several weeks of falls, as the markets cope with a glut of crude.

US West Texas Crude gained 1.1% to $36.38 a barrel, while Brent rose 0.7% to $37.32 a barrel.

US oil producers will now be able to sell crude to the already saturated international market.

The bulk of US oil comes from shale producers. Production and exploration companies argued the ban - imposed during the Arab oil embargo in the mid-1970s - was outdated and unnecessary.

Opponents claimed that lifting the ban would lead to the loss of oil refining jobs and would be bad for the environment.

As a trade-off for lifting the ban, the spending bill includes tax breaks for solar and wind power and a pledge by Republicans not to block a $500m payment to the UN Green Climate Fund.
It was "part of a $1.1 trillion (£738bn) spending bill approved by the Senate on Friday that will fund the US government until 2016."

However, it seems obvious that releasing more crude oil into "the already saturated international market" would tend to drop the already low price even further.

Thus, it ended up having that effect. Wouldn't you say?

So we sell our crude oil, at bargin basement prices...
Thanks Barry (no balls) Obama...

Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Skeeve » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:38 am

UPDATE: U.S., Russia clash at United Nations over crisis in Venezuela and who is legitimate president
The United States on Saturday urged the United Nations Security Council to recognize a Venezuelan opposition leader as the country’s president to replace authoritarian leader Nicolas Maduro, but Russia quickly voiced stiff opposition to the move.

Late in the day, an immediate clash between the U.S. and Venezuela was averted when Maduro’s government announced that it was stepping back from a Sunday deadline it had set for U.S. diplomats to leave the country. Instead, the Venezuelan Foreign Ministry said, it had negotiated a 30-day delay during which the two nations would seek to establish “interests offices” in each country. The U.S. had initially said it would defy the order issued Wednesday but then began moving out nonessential personnel.

At the emergency U.N. session called by the U.S., Moscow and Washington clashed openly over what the Trump administration characterized as a return to democracy, and what Russia labeled an illegal coup that meddled in a sovereign nation’s domestic affairs.
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:47 am

WildCat wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:30 am
What's with all the decorations? How many wars has Venezuela been in recently that a military man can be so decorated?
That is the official "next jefe of Venezuela" uniform. 8)
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Re: Venezuela Meltdown

Post by Witness » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:00 am

WildCat wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:30 am
What's with all the decorations? How many wars has Venezuela been in recently that a military man can be so decorated?
Image