## Bail Reform in NYS

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
ed
Posts: 33635
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Bail Reform in NYS

The bill will reform our bail system so that anyone facing misdemeanor or nonviolent felony charges should be released without bail. Those who pose a current danger to a person or persons or pose a risk of flight can still be held in detention, with due process, but no longer will people go to jail for the crime of being poor.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/opin ... eft-region

Hate to say it but, in principle I agree with Cuomo. Would be better if I didn't think that it was purely to prepare runway for 2020. Even corrupt fucks can have good ideas.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

gnome
Posts: 22375
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

Isn't that how democracy works, by corrupt fucks doing things we want in order to get votes?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

ed
Posts: 33635
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

Guess so.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

WildCat
Posts: 14236
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

They're doing that here, and it's a disaster. Example:
A long-time Boystown nuisance who’s accused of trying to rob a man in River North last month was freed on a recognizance bond even though the Cook County Sheriff’s Office refused to accept him into its electronic monitoring program.

Yesterday, Donovan Mylander failed to show up in court, making him the latest person accused of a violent crime in Cook County who’s walking free thanks to local politicians’ love affair with a new “affordable bond” program.

Mylander is accused of going through a victim’s pants in the 500 block of North State during a robbery attempt on December 20.

The next day, Judge Michael Clancy ordered Mylander released on electronic monitoring with a $50,000 I-Bond. The I-Bond means that he would walk out of jail without paying bail—but he could be charged$50,000 if he fails to show up in court.

Court records show that Mylander failed to appear in court for two previous cases. He also scored a four out of six for “recent criminal activity” on the electronic monitoring assessment, records show.

On December 22, the sheriff refused to accept Mylander into the electronic monitoring program.

Despite being rejected for monitoring, Mylander was set free on a $50,000 I-Bond and no electronic monitoring. On Tuesday, he failed to show up for his first court appearance in the robbery case. Judge Marvin Luckman issued a bench warrant. Closer scrutiny of Mylander’s electronic monitoring paperwork shows that his “residential address” does not exist. According to court records, Mylander had been given I-Bonds in two previous criminal cases last year. He skipped bail both times, according to records. Both of those previous failures to appear stem from cases in Boystown. In June, Mylander was accused of battering a worker at the Center on Halsted, the massive LGBTQ service agency from which he had been banned. He didn't show up in court. And an October case revolved around allegations that Mylander threatened a Jewel-Osco worker during a shoplifting attempt at the grocer’s Broadway/Addison location. He didn't show up in court that time, either. So where is Mylander? He’s on Facebook, laughing at the system and threatening to kill snitches. http://www.cwbchicago.com/2018/01/after ... ronic.html Do you have questions about God? you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj gnome Posts: 22375 Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am Location: New Port Richey, FL ### Re: Bail Reform in NYS Sounds like an implementation issue. Isn't the idea that people likely to fail to show simply aren't released, rather than charging massive bail? If the justice system lets them go anyway, that isn't the fault of this proposal. That's them letting go someone they shouldn't have. "If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!" --Soldier, TF2 WildCat Posts: 14236 Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago ### Re: Bail Reform in NYS gnome wrote:Sounds like an implementation issue. Isn't the idea that people likely to fail to show simply aren't released, rather than charging massive bail? If the justice system lets them go anyway, that isn't the fault of this proposal. That's them letting go someone they shouldn't have. If you don't let them go you're "jailing them for being poor". Do you have questions about God? you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj ed Posts: 33635 Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp ### Re: Bail Reform in NYS Misdemeanors and non-violent felonies are what they are talking about. I think the miscreant you reference, Wildcat, would not be eligible. I agree with this in principle but it has to be implemented appropriately. In the world of Ed the above guy would be rotting. He might even have met with an unfortunate accident. Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning! WildCat Posts: 14236 Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago ### Re: Bail Reform in NYS Still Missing Jose Benitez-Sanchez, 43, remains missing since our first report. Prosecutors say he covered his face with a black plastic bag and entered an Uptown woman’s home with an “extremely large knife” by cutting through a screen on August 24, 2016. A family friend posted$25,000 of his $250,000 bond shortly before Benitez-Sanchez went missing on June 15, 2017. Found One of the missing men who was profiled in our July report on bail-skippers has since been located and sentenced. Cornelius Brewer, accused of robbing a Lakeview gardener of a$900 leafblower in 2016, had been released on a $10,000 I-Bond and went missing for nearly a year before sheriff’s deputies caught up with him in September. The next month, he pleaded guilty and was sentenced to two-years probation. He was not penalized for skipping bail. Found, But Missing Again Kenneth Manning was featured in our earlier report about AWOL defendants. Since then, he has been (A) located and arrested (B) put on electronic monitoring with a$50,000 I-Bond and (C) gone missing again.

A 25-year-old man told police that he was walking in Boystown when Manning and another man pushed him into an alley and robbed him around 3 a.m. on May 17, prosecutors said.

Manning has been missing (again) since skipping court on August 18.

Newly Missing

Manning’s alleged accomplice, Edward Smith, has also skipped bail. Missing since he failed to appear in court on October 16, Smith had been on electronic monitoring with a $50,000 I-Bond. • Fabian Cazares, 19, was accused of having a loaded revolver in his car as he sat in the 3700 block of Recreation drive early on November 19. He was released on a$25,000 I-Bond and hasn’t been seen since.

• 22-year-old Israel Araujo of Lakeview has been missing since he skipped court on October 5. He was free on a $30,000 bond while awaiting five felony charges of possessing over$6,000 worth of narcotics in his car at Diversey Harbor on July 16.

• Larry Mitchell, 33, was arrested in May and charged with breaking into a series of North Side car dealerships to steal autos and dealer plates. He was put on electronic monitoring with a $75,000 I-Bond and hasn’t been seen since September. • Kathleen Roxas, 26, was charged with felony burglary of the Yakov Elementary School with three others last October. Cops said they found Roxas standing outside, wearing a stolen school uniform, with a set of the school’s master keys dangling from her neck. Roxas was freed on a$25,000 I-Bond and has been missing since she skipped court on December 20.

• Travis S. Crockett, 36, was accused of selling five grams of cocaine to an undercover officer outside of Slugger’s World Class Sports Bar, 3540 N. Clark, on August 12. Charged with manufacture-delivery of cocaine near a school and two counts of possession, he was released on a $10,000 I-Bond and has been missing since he skipped court on December 1. • Kelvin Davis, the 41-year-old who’s accused of sprinkling baby powder on a crowded Red Line train in September, launching a full hazardous materials response in Wrigleyville is AWOL. Released on a$25,000 bond, he hasn’t been seen since he skipped court in November.

• And, finally, an alleged scam artist who’s accused of skipping out on a $1,839 bar tab at Trump Tower has not been seen since he missed court on March 17. Robert Heath of Canton, Georgia, was set free on a$10,000 I-Bond after the incident last winter.
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2018/01/they- ... or-no.html

Never, ever do you see any consequences for not showing up in court even if they're caught.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

WildCat
Posts: 14236
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

ed wrote:Misdemeanors and non-violent felonies are what they are talking about. I think the miscreant you reference, Wildcat, would not be eligible.

I agree with this in principle but it has to be implemented appropriately. In the world of Ed the above guy would be rotting. He might even have met with an unfortunate accident.
When a robbery with a firearm is charged as "possession of lost or mislaid property" and "illegal firearm possession" then it's magically not a violent crime any more. And there's lots of pressure to do this, so politicians can claim "violent crime is down".
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

WildCat
Posts: 14236
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

So, yesterday, two "kids" robbed a guy of his phone near the Sheridan Red Line station. When the victim chased after the thieves, they spun around and shot him in the forehead with what proved to be a BB gun.

Now, get this: Just a couple of days earlier, cops arrested three people near the Sheridan Red Line for shooting pellet guns at cars. Cops say they found at least thirteen cell phones of various makes and models in the trio's possession.

Now, what are the odds of that?

Police went to the 4000 block of North Sheridan around 11:30 p.m. Monday after witnesses reported seeing three people shooting pellet guns at parked cars.

Officers said they saw three people walking away from an area where three vehicles sat with shattered windows.

20-year-old Dontae Pearson of the Oakland neighborhood had 13 cell phones in a backpack, according to court records. He also had a bag of BBs and a pellet gun, prosecutors said.

He’s charged with possession of a replica firearm, theft of lost or mislaid property, criminal damage to property, and reckless conduct. He is currently on probation after pleading guilty to a residential burglary this summer.

Thomas Wolkow, 22, faces the same charges as Pearson.

His sister, Sarah Wolkow, is charged with reckless conduct,

The Wolkows listed the Howard Brown Health Center at 4025 N. Sheridan as their “home.”

Just imagine what might happen if detectives would take a few hours to track down the owners of those phones. They may find some activity that's a lot more serious than theft of "lost or mislaid" property.
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2016/10/cops- ... ridan.html
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

gnome
Posts: 22375
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:Sounds like an implementation issue.

Isn't the idea that people likely to fail to show simply aren't released, rather than charging massive bail?
If the justice system lets them go anyway, that isn't the fault of this proposal. That's them letting go someone they shouldn't have.
If you don't let them go you're "jailing them for being poor".
No, you're "jailing them for running last time".

No poor person has to do that.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

WildCat
Posts: 14236
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

gnome wrote: No, you're "jailing them for running last time".

No poor person has to do that.
As we see in practice it simply doesn't happen. There's no consequences for skipping court.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

Rob Lister
Posts: 20110
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote: No, you're "jailing them for running last time".

No poor person has to do that.
As we see in practice it simply doesn't happen. There's no consequences for skipping court.
That's a different issue, isn't it? If someone is released on an I bond, then that money is owed at default, isn't it? If that is not a consequence then why not? Do you have any examples of that bond being often forgiven?

I'm pro this process.

ed
Posts: 33635
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

WildCat wrote:
ed wrote:Misdemeanors and non-violent felonies are what they are talking about. I think the miscreant you reference, Wildcat, would not be eligible.

I agree with this in principle but it has to be implemented appropriately. In the world of Ed the above guy would be rotting. He might even have met with an unfortunate accident.
When a robbery with a firearm is charged as "possession of lost or mislaid property" and "illegal firearm possession" then it's magically not a violent crime any more. And there's lots of pressure to do this, so politicians can claim "violent crime is down".
Can you give me a reference? I don't doubt you in the least, this is the sort of stuff that I simply like to know to shut snowflakes up.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

RCC: Act II
Posts: 840
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

ed wrote:
Can you give me a reference? I don't doubt you in the least, this is the sort of stuff that I simply like to know to shut snowflakes up.
I like to collect anecdotes, but somehow the guy charged with possession who gets a personal recognizance bond that shows up to court doesn't make the papers. The only way to get rid of bad anecdotes is to jail everyone pending trial.

If you don't like the idea of people being jailed before being convicted, then bail is bullshit. Bail is an archaic concept with a ton of problems. That it is a massive financial burden on the poor is just one thing.

People who are shown to be a clear danger should be held pending trial. Those with a felony charge and a history of flight as well. There should be a strong prejudice towards home confinement for both, rather than jail. Everyone else should be free. Prosecute those who willfully fail to appear. Simple as that.

RCC: Act II
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

WildCat wrote: As we see in practice it simply doesn't happen. There's no consequences for skipping court.
lol

I mean, I was in court this morning about a failure to appear and.. I say again,

lol

Abdul Alhazred
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Location: Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

RCC: Act II wrote: ... That it is a massive financial burden on the poor is just one thing. ...
I see that, although I'm not clear exactly how bail amounts are set. I do know the constitution prohibits "excessive" bail.

Is it pretty much arbitrarily up to the judge, absent something like what they are doing in NY?
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

gnome
Posts: 22375
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote: No, you're "jailing them for running last time".

No poor person has to do that.
As we see in practice it simply doesn't happen. There's no consequences for skipping court.
As Rob pointed out, if it's true it's a broken part that's not within this proposal. The choice of whether to apply such a proposal doesn't fix or prevent the problem you're describing.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72272
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
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Location: Chicago

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

gnome wrote:As Rob pointed out, if it's true it's a broken part that's not within this proposal.
If it's true, it's a broken part that makes this proposal an exercise in futility.

BTW, the consequences for skipping court are an open warrant that will bite you next time you're stopped for having a perpetrator face. Well not you, but you know what I mean.

No that's not efficient law enforcement, but it's something other than nothing.
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

RCC: Act II
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:56 am

### Re: Bail Reform in NYS

Generally up to the judge, but some places have guidelines. Historically, it was only to ensure appearance, but courts have worked in protecting the public from future crimes into it.

The whole historical context and practice of bail is just uber-fucked in light of any sort of idea that the criminal justice system isn't supposed to be a weapon to be used against those who the people in power don't care for based on ethnic/economic/political/whatever status or who do not conform to local cultural norms w/r/t something like recreational activities or sex or clothing.