Florida School Shooting

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:32 am

More evidence of how you can depend on your government to take care of you.
While students and teachers lay gravely wounded inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, a Fire Department official outside was begging to send in paramedics.

In the chaos immediately after the shooting rampage on Feb. 14 in Parkland, Fla., the Coral Springs Fire Department’s deputy chief, Michael McNally, repeatedly asked to dispatch specialized teams of paramedics and police officers to treat victims.

But his requests, according to a report the department released on Thursday, were denied by a captain with the Broward County Sheriff’s Office who was overseeing the law enforcement response.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/us/p ... icle-click
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Skeeve
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:13 pm

ed wrote:More evidence of how you can depend on your government to take care of you.
While students and teachers lay gravely wounded inside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, a Fire Department official outside was begging to send in paramedics.

In the chaos immediately after the shooting rampage on Feb. 14 in Parkland, Fla., the Coral Springs Fire Department’s deputy chief, Michael McNally, repeatedly asked to dispatch specialized teams of paramedics and police officers to treat victims.

But his requests, according to a report the department released on Thursday, were denied by a captain with the Coward County Sheriff’s Office who was overseeing the law enforcement response.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/us/p ... icle-click
FTFY
...
Chief McNally wrote that he asked six times to send in the groups, but that Capt. Jan Jordan kept offering the same response: She “would have to check before approving this request.”
...
Many victims bled to death before reaching the hospital.
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:48 pm

And no suit against the police would prevail because they have no obligation to protect.
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Skeeve
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Skeeve » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:09 pm

Parkland Shooting Commission Report Causes A Stir: Recommends Arming Teachers, Calls For Investigation Of Sheriff's Deputies
The state commission tasked with investigating the tragic Parkland school shooting, which left 17 people dead, unanimously approved its comprehensive 458-page report Wednesday, and it's causing a stir. Among its most notable recommendations is that trained teachers should be allowed to carry weapons on campus and internal investigations should be opened into multiple deputies under Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel.
:shock:

Not what I expected.

I wonder what David and the Hogg squad think about that?
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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xouper
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by xouper » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:57 pm

ed wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:48 pm
And no suit against the police would prevail because they have no obligation to protect.
You wrote that back in June. In December a court agreed with you.

Police, schools had no duty to protect Parkland school shooting victims, judge rules

If the government has no duty to protect (and this is not the first court ruling to that effect), then it is reprehensible and immoral for the government to deny students and teachers their second amendment right to protect themselves.

But this is what liberals want. They don't want to protect you from criminals and they don't want you to be able to protect yourself. And this applies whether its guns or walls. Except of course, they want guns and walls to protect themselves. Fucking hypocrites.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x This is my life and my safety they're fucking with. And the safety of my family. There is no more important issue to be outraged about than that. This is why liberals will not win this fight. Because it's deeply personal to every law abiding gun owner.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x Bite me. And David Hogg can go fuck himself. :x

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Giz
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Giz » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:19 pm

xouper wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:57 pm
ed wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:48 pm
And no suit against the police would prevail because they have no obligation to protect.
You wrote that back in June. In December a court agreed with you.

Police, schools had no duty to protect Parkland school shooting victims, judge rules

If the government has no duty to protect (and this is not the first court ruling to that effect), then it is reprehensible and immoral for the government to deny students and teachers their second amendment right to protect themselves.

But this is what liberals want. They don't want to protect you from criminals and they don't want you to be able to protect yourself. And this applies whether its guns or walls. Except of course, they want guns and walls to protect themselves. Fucking hypocrites.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x This is my life and my safety they're fucking with. And the safety of my family. There is no more important issue to be outraged about than that. This is why liberals will not win this fight. Because it's deeply personal to every law abiding gun owner.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x Bite me. And David Hogg can go fuck himself. :x
Except, "liberals " see YOU as the danger. Because you freely choose to own a gun, and guns are scary and killy.

What about actual gun using criminals, you ask? Why, they are the victims of circumstances and have been enabled, nay entrapped, by your immoral firearm laws.

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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:25 pm

xouper wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:57 pm
ed wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:48 pm
And no suit against the police would prevail because they have no obligation to protect.
You wrote that back in June. In December a court agreed with you.

Police, schools had no duty to protect Parkland school shooting victims, judge rules

If the government has no duty to protect (and this is not the first court ruling to that effect), then it is reprehensible and immoral for the government to deny students and teachers their second amendment right to protect themselves.

But this is what liberals want. They don't want to protect you from criminals and they don't want you to be able to protect yourself. And this applies whether its guns or walls. Except of course, they want guns and walls to protect themselves. Fucking hypocrites.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x This is my life and my safety they're fucking with. And the safety of my family. There is no more important issue to be outraged about than that. This is why liberals will not win this fight. Because it's deeply personal to every law abiding gun owner.

Yes, I'm triggered. :x Bite me. And David Hogg can go fuck himself. :x

"A court"???
My friend, this is settled law. The supremes weighed in on it twice (at least)
WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

The decision, with an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia and dissents from Justices John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, overturned a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado. The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/poli ... otect.html
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xouper
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by xouper » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:36 pm

ed wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:25 pm
"A court"???
My friend, this is settled law. The supremes weighed in on it twice (at least)
The Supreme Court ruling you cited was for a different fact pattern, not even close to being the same as a school shooting. The court ruling I cited was directly about the Parkland shooting.

Nonetheless, I get your point. :mrgreen:

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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:45 pm

I get you but the principle is what is operative ...

"The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm"

Why? Simple I think. If this were not the case, every crime victim would sue the government. So the supremes came up with some legal folderol.
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Nyarlathotep
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 pm

I am no lawyer but I am pretty sure some sort of middle ground could be found between cops being liable every time someone gets burgled and they weren't around to stop it and the way things are now where someone could be disemboweling you with a chainsaw in plain view of the cops and they can just shrug and say "he's getting killed lol. I'm not going after him" with no legal consequences at all if they don't feel like doing anything about it.
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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:07 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 pm
I am no lawyer but I am pretty sure some sort of middle ground could be found between cops being liable every time someone gets burgled and they weren't around to stop it and the way things are now where someone could be disemboweling you with a chainsaw in plain view of the cops and they can just shrug and say "he's getting killed lol. I'm not going after him" with no legal consequences at all if they don't feel like doing anything about it.
Maybe but they are still not obligated to protect.
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Nyarlathotep
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:11 pm

No they are not. And its a fucked up state of affairs. I doubt it's unintentionally fucked up though
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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:22 pm

As I said, they have to make sure the edifice doesn't crumble so they hoke up a constitutional justification. Like the use of the interstate commerce clause to extend federal control over ... well ... everything.
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xouper
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by xouper » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:33 pm

ed wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:45 pm
I get you but the principle is what is operative ...
Affirmative.

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:39 pm

This fact, that of the po-pos not having a legal obligation to protect (and the cases that led to the findings) are an ugly little reality that anti firearms folks simply ignore.

I think I told the story here were my wife and I were at a show and a police sargent stopped by to chat. He said to my wife (near as I can recall):
"My patrol area is 45 minutes on a side. If you are in trouble you better be able to take care of yourself cuz you can't depend on me"

The EDWife was slackjawed. Here was a bona fide authority figure sounding like a character out of a post-apocalyptic B movie.
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by gnome » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:32 pm

My thoughts on this are all over the place as to what is the best forum for the quality of police work to be accountable under various circumstances. But this is one of the reasons why I oppose blanket firearm bans, even if such were allowable constitutionally.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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ed
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by ed » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:40 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:32 pm
My thoughts on this are all over the place as to what is the best forum for the quality of police work to be accountable under various circumstances. But this is one of the reasons why I oppose blanket firearm bans, even if such were allowable constitutionally.
Here is the bottom line: a cop can be fired for not responding fast or effectively enough. But that performance does not constitute a legal requirement.
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Bruce
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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Bruce » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:52 am

I'm recalling a line from the Simpsons.

The law is powerless to protect you, but it has plenty of power to punish you.
Such potential!

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:54 am

ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:40 pm
gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:32 pm
My thoughts on this are all over the place as to what is the best forum for the quality of police work to be accountable under various circumstances. But this is one of the reasons why I oppose blanket firearm bans, even if such were allowable constitutionally.
Here is the bottom line: a cop can be fired for not responding fast or effectively enough. But that performance does not constitute a legal requirement.
On the other hand, who would be a police officer if it meant that just doing your job or making a mistake under a high-stress situation is likely to make you go to jail.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Florida School Shooting

Post by Grammatron » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:57 am

Bruce wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:52 am
I'm recalling a line from the Simpsons.

The law is powerless to protect you, but it has plenty of power to punish you.
Close!