The First Mueller Anniversary

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:48 pm

gnome wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:08 pm
ed wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:17 pm


I think that if the people around Obama were investigated the way Trumps people are being investigated it would look about the same.
You can't reach that level of power and success without having done things which. to the ignorant, may appear dodgy. If you have never been at a senior level in business or, I suspect, government, you have no idea how it is played. I think most people try to hew to the law but regulations are so fucking complicated that I think that it is virtually impossible to ever be completely clean.

I'll give an example. This is ITAR
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internati ... egulations
It regulates trade in "dangerous thing". It regulates everything. Let me say that again: it regulates EVERYTHING.

You know what "dual use" is? "(of technology or equipment) designed or suitable for both civilian and military purposes." You think that snippet of code you sent to AC was only for boring accountancy? Hahahahahahahaha If it can be slipped into something less banal you might be in violation. AR grips? Foul weather gear? Surplus crap from WW2? Chemicals?

If you shipped anything overseas at any point in your lives I would make a money bet that I could ruin you financially if I had Mueller's powers. Fact is also that there are penalties for not registering as a supplier of ITAR stuff. Didn't know that it was ITAR? Fuck you, pay me.

It's political. Plain and simple.

eta most people have no idea of how onerous federal regulations are. Hey Bruce, give us a snippit would you? Now imagine this level of burocratic crap in every business. No way you can be pure.

I had a law firm in DC, big one (I say that becasue you would think a big firm would be buttoned up. right?). I recall asking my attorney about OSHA regs. He said that they were so complicated that his firm decided that paying fines was cheaper than trying to comply a priori. You think the founders would approve?
I'm sure you are correct, and from that I take that the presence of an adjudicated violation is not enough information to evaluate the situation. All I would add is that in light of this, can a reasonably informed person do anything to distinguish a case of someone effectively "stumbling into noncompliance", or perhaps abandoning attempts at compliance due to the regulations' onerous nature, and separate them from someone who is in deliberate violation of what the regulation was intended to stop?
If they want to get you, there is no difference.

There is no way, in any universe, that an individual could summon up the recourses to confront a state actor. And when you are paupered and finally give up and plead guilty to "a lesser offense" you will be fucking guilty. Period end of story.

Check out Roger Stone
https://www.thepostemail.com/2019/01/23 ... wednesday/
Fact is he has been investigated for two (TWO!!!!) years and is virtually insolvent. Is that anything even remotely resembling justice?

What should happen is that the legal fees for people under investigation should come out of the JD budget.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22443
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:48 pm

ed wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:48 pm
gnome wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:08 pm


I'm sure you are correct, and from that I take that the presence of an adjudicated violation is not enough information to evaluate the situation. All I would add is that in light of this, can a reasonably informed person do anything to distinguish a case of someone effectively "stumbling into noncompliance", or perhaps abandoning attempts at compliance due to the regulations' onerous nature, and separate them from someone who is in deliberate violation of what the regulation was intended to stop?
If they want to get you, there is no difference.

There is no way, in any universe, that an individual could summon up the recourses to confront a state actor. And when you are paupered and finally give up and plead guilty to "a lesser offense" you will be fucking guilty. Period end of story.

Check out Roger Stone
https://www.thepostemail.com/2019/01/23 ... wednesday/
Fact is he has been investigated for two (TWO!!!!) years and is virtually insolvent. Is that anything even remotely resembling justice?

What should happen is that the legal fees for people under investigation should come out of the JD budget.
I'm not sure you're answering the same question I asked. I realize that it hardly ever affects the outcome.

Let me ask it a different way. Suppose you're a federal prosecutor, and suppose you have some degree of discretion on which cases to press. You already operate in the unfair system you've just described, but you'd like to use your discretion to let relatively innocent parties off the hook or with nominal consequence, and use your resources to go after the real bad actors. What sort of actions by the defendant would you look at to decide whether moving forward is just?

Can we think about that to consider (amongst ourselves here on the forum) whether a particular case is being excessively enforced?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm

Ah ...
What you are positing is the benevolent despot, right? Someone who can, more or less, arbitrarily fuck you up under the color of law.

Let me riddle you this ... was OJ thrown in the slammer because he deserved it for killing Nicole? I think he was and I think that that was a miscarriage of justice. And I think OJ should suffer but not because of arbitrary "justice".

In answer to your specific question, I don't know. I have said that the way to dry up illegal arms in chi is to catch one malefactor and sweat him to find out his supplier, rinse repeat. Inherent in this is being creative with methods and charges and so on. I guess the issue there is that people are dieing. With Trump et al we are looking more and more at a political witch hunt. And when it is political the same techniques that I would wink at when lives are at stake are problematic.

I think real bad things happen but I think that you simply don't hear about them. After all, who is going to whine loudly if the result might be 10 years more tacked on your sentence.

Actually, lets look at the guy I mentioned already, Stone. Two years. He says he is insolvent. No charges yet it goes on.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Skeeve
Posts: 10748
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:35 am

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Skeeve » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:10 pm

Trump associate Stone arrested, faces obstruction charge
WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested in the special counsel's Russia investigation in a pre-dawn raid at his Florida home on Friday and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

The seven-count indictment against Stone, a self-proclaimed "dirty trickster," is the first criminal case in months from special counsel Robert Mueller. It provides the most detail to date about how Trump campaign associates were aware in the summer of 2016 that emails had been stolen from the Hillary Clinton campaign and wanted them released. It alleges that unnamed senior Trump campaign officials contacted Stone to ask when the stolen emails might be disclosed.

The indictment does not charge Stone with conspiring with WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy website that published the emails, or with the Russian officers Mueller says hacked them. Instead, it accuses him of witness tampering, obstruction and false statements about his interactions related to WikiLeaks' release. Some of those false statements were made to the House intelligence committee, according to the indictment.
Oh my, never talk to the cops, feds, congress-critters, flowers....
...
CNN recorded video of the raid at Stone's Fort Lauderdale home, showing FBI agents in combat gear using large weapons and night-vision equipment, running up to the home and banging repeatedly on the door. "FBI open the door!" one shouts. "FBI, warrant!" Stone could then be seen in the doorway in his sleepwear before he was led away, CNN reported.
Nice to see they let the CNN in on 'the bust.'
...
In a tweet Friday, Podesta wrote that it was now "Roger's time in the barrel." That was a play on Stone's own words. Stone had tweeted cryptically before the Podesta emails were disclosed that it would soon be Podesta's "time in the barrel."
Then Skank Of America could start in...

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22443
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:41 pm

ed wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm
Ah ...
What you are positing is the benevolent despot, right? Someone who can, more or less, arbitrarily fuck you up under the color of law.

Let me riddle you this ... was OJ thrown in the slammer because he deserved it for killing Nicole? I think he was and I think that that was a miscarriage of justice. And I think OJ should suffer but not because of arbitrary "justice".
This is more or less what I am reaching for. His moral culpability does not justify the system's abuses. But it's important to consider if we're trying to figure out what to think of him personally.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:14 pm

Skeeve wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:10 pm
Trump associate Stone arrested, faces obstruction charge
WASHINGTON (AP) — Roger Stone, a confidant of President Donald Trump, was arrested in the special counsel's Russia investigation in a pre-dawn raid at his Florida home on Friday and was charged with lying to Congress and obstructing the probe.

The seven-count indictment against Stone, a self-proclaimed "dirty trickster," is the first criminal case in months from special counsel Robert Mueller. It provides the most detail to date about how Trump campaign associates were aware in the summer of 2016 that emails had been stolen from the Hillary Clinton campaign and wanted them released. It alleges that unnamed senior Trump campaign officials contacted Stone to ask when the stolen emails might be disclosed.

The indictment does not charge Stone with conspiring with WikiLeaks, the anti-secrecy website that published the emails, or with the Russian officers Mueller says hacked them. Instead, it accuses him of witness tampering, obstruction and false statements about his interactions related to WikiLeaks' release. Some of those false statements were made to the House intelligence committee, according to the indictment.
Oh my, never talk to the cops, feds, congress-critters, flowers....
...
CNN recorded video of the raid at Stone's Fort Lauderdale home, showing FBI agents in combat gear using large weapons and night-vision equipment, running up to the home and banging repeatedly on the door. "FBI open the door!" one shouts. "FBI, warrant!" Stone could then be seen in the doorway in his sleepwear before he was led away, CNN reported.
Nice to see they let the CNN in on 'the bust.'
...
In a tweet Friday, Podesta wrote that it was now "Roger's time in the barrel." That was a play on Stone's own words. Stone had tweeted cryptically before the Podesta emails were disclosed that it would soon be Podesta's "time in the barrel."
And that is exactly what I am complaining about. That is a bullshit execution of the warrant.

FBI in combat gear? Really? Leading a 74 year old man in his PJ's away? You want your name associated with crap like this?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:19 pm

gnome wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:41 pm
ed wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 pm
Ah ...
What you are positing is the benevolent despot, right? Someone who can, more or less, arbitrarily fuck you up under the color of law.

Let me riddle you this ... was OJ thrown in the slammer because he deserved it for killing Nicole? I think he was and I think that that was a miscarriage of justice. And I think OJ should suffer but not because of arbitrary "justice".
This is more or less what I am reaching for. His moral culpability does not justify the system's abuses. But it's important to consider if we're trying to figure out what to think of him personally.
What you are thinking of is the benevolent despot. Who will mete out justice independent of law.

Another thinker had the same idea.
This principle can be most succinctly understood to mean that "the Führer's word is above all written law" and that governmental policies, decisions, and offices ought to work toward the realization of this end.[1] In actual political usage, it refers mainly to the practice of dictatorship within the ranks of a political party itself, and as such, it has become an earmark of political fascism.
If you read Hastings or the new bio I believe that you'll find that 'dolf was outraged at the lenient sentences being given to various nogoodniks. He stepped in and "rectified" the situation. And that was the genesis of the FP.

A despot, maybe not benevolent but that is the way it always turns out, I fear.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22443
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:02 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:19 pm
What you are thinking of is the benevolent despot. Who will mete out justice independent of law.
You misunderstood the point. I don't want that at all or even close. The purpose was can we decide for ourselves if the guy did meaningful wrong, even while the system of enforcement is admittedly unfair? I was trying to clear the way for you to suggest a way that doesn't depend on the current system, by offering you hypothetical discretion.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:15 pm

"Meaningful wrong". OJ? Yes.

Roger Stone? Meaningful? Dunno. Certainly not "meaningful" enough to pauper him.

Here is my basic ground zero for looking at this stuff.
- If they want to destroy you they will
- An outsider will never know (that means you and me) whether the person did or did not do what they are accused of. We also don't really know very well if there would have been a "crime" had the feds not been involved.

What the bottom line is for the legal system to work, you have to trust government. I lost my trust when Kissinger admitted that they let the war go on till after the election. I lost it right then and there.

That said, you would need a system where empire building is not part of the job description. Term limits, small government.

Absent that, legal fees paid out of the JD budget. I think that it is repellent that, if accused, you can be destroyed.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72894
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:15 pm
I lost my trust when Kissinger admitted that they let the war go on till after the election.
Me too. :oldman:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:56 pm

interesting.

Does make it hard to take progressive claptrap seriously. Doesn't it?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68755
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:31 pm

Meanwhile, analysis on what, exactly, Stone is under indictment for:
In the end, it appears Stone's big problem was his big mouth. He liked to brag about being behind all sorts of nefarious deeds when in fact he was not, or he had a tangential connection to them. That led to this chain of events: 1) Stone bragged in public; 2) the House committee asked him about his bragging under oath; and 3) Mueller investigated the veracity of Stone's sworn testimony. If Stone had not popped off about himself all the time, he probably would not have gotten himself in trouble.

Stone presented a pretty accurate picture of himself in an interview last November with CNN's Michael Smerconish. "What I have done here is perfectly legal," Stone said. "I took a solid tip and entirely public information, it could be gleaned from the WikiLeaks Twitter feed and by setting a Google News Alert on Julian Assange and reading every interview, to hype and punk and promote and posture and bluff the Democrats."

The problem came when Stone was asked under oath about his statements. It is one thing to hype and punk and promote and posture and bluff when talking to the press, but another to hype and punk and promote and posture and bluff when testifying under oath to a congressional committee. Roger Stone knows that now.

Bryon York: Washington Examiner
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!!

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 20480
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by corplinx » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:38 pm

Free Martin Skreli and all political prisoners!

User avatar
corplinx
Posts: 20480
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:49 am
Title: Moderator

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by corplinx » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:39 pm

Seriously though, what a farce.

They make a perp-walk of Stone, 30 agents, ass crack of morning, leaked to CNN to record, and he's out at lunchtime on bail.

LOL.

It's time to shut this shit-show down. It's keystone cops level stupidity.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 22900
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:32 pm

Count Seven is a witness tampering charge, alleging that Stone tried to convince Credico to take the Fifth or to lie to the House committee.
Could telling someone to take the Fifth be witness tampering?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33928
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Grammatron » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:40 pm

Telling someone to lie would be though.

Surprise
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:33 am

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Surprise » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:21 am

ed wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:01 pm
One year and yadda ya get? 16 tons (of bullshit) and deeper in debt.

Sorry ...

Yes, Mueller indited some Russkies. What is going on with that? Well, ueller figured that he could get some headlines to the effect he was actually "doing something" with little risk of actually having to prove his allegations.

SURPRISE!!!!!!
WASHINGTON — One of the Russian companies indicted for what special counsel Robert Mueller alleged was a wide-ranging scheme to undermine the 2016 elections pleaded not guilty on Wednesday and said through its lawyer that it planned to contest the charges.
Holy shit!!!
Mueller's office charged in February that 13 Russian nationals and three businesses sought to meddle in the election election by posing as Americans, launching social media campaigns to pick at Americans' political division and staging rallies. The operation, prosecutors said, was aimed at "spreading distrust toward the candidates and the political system," and in particular at "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump."
Gotta ask minds greater than mine, does not everyone here have protection of the constitution? Is there not freedom of speech? :lol: :lol:
None of the charges had been expected to go anywhere because the companies and all of the individuals charged over the scheme are Russian. But on Wednesday, one of them, Concord Management and Consulting, LLC, dispatched a pair of lawyers to federal court in Washington to plead not guilty to the charges. One of the lawyers, Eric Dubelier, said Concord would "exercise our right to a speedy trial."
One can only smirk smile
The two other companies and 13 individuals indicted along with Concord did not appear. Mueller's office has said in court filings that the Russian government has not cooperated with their efforts to serve summonses on them. "The government would be thrilled if they were here," one of Mueller's prosecutors, Jeannie Rhee, said on Wednesday.
Bullshit

[snip]
Mueller's office said in a court filing last week that Concord's lawyers had already demanded that prosecutors turn over "sensitive intelligence gathering, national security, and foreign affairs information," including details on electronic surveillance of the company and its employees.
:doglaugh: :doglaugh:
Partly in light of those demands, prosecutors asked the court to put off Concord's arraignment. U.S. District Court Judge Dabney Friedrich denied the request without explanation.
:roll:

[snip]
Mueller's office said the Russian campaign was clear about its objectives. In one internal memo prosecutors said the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency told its employees to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump - we support them)." In another, they said it is "imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."
I think we have seen examples of "Intensive criticism" of Hillary.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 594454002/

Even the Time is reporting on this. In their story, they make this point:
The legal burden to gain access to grand jury materials, such as testimony and jury instructions, is very high because such information is carefully safeguarded to protect the integrity of investigations.
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/05 ... ncord.html

A little secrecy can't hurt.

This thing is appearing increasingly rotten to me. And while I am no fan of Trump and while I think the government being shut down is probably a net good, I also think that there are things going on that are sorta serious and that this bullshit is a diversion that is serving no good whatsoever.

To summarize: Mueller indites a bunch of americans for lying. The Russians he scares up fight back and am I willing to make a wager with anyone here that nothing (0, zip, nada) will ever go to court.

Let me remind you all that there is no crime of "collusion".

And, upon introspection, the thing that really annoyed me is the wanton expenditure of many that is not theirs, it is ours, and the fuckers spend it without a care because they really are entitled fuckers, at the base of it, and they think that money is limitless.


.
You have lost that bet, Ed.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:33 pm

I meant the Russkies. Are they going to court?
As far as the americans, sure, "lieing to the fbi". What bullshit.

The guy was retained to investigate russian influence in our elections and was, mistakenly in my opinion, given authority to investigate everything he felt like with zero constraints. n.b. if I am wrong on this please correct me.

Here, take a look at the russian ads.

https://www.cbsnews.com/media/russian-a ... a-gallery/
Image

Another point is that anyone resident here, legally or illegally, has constitutional protections regarding speech. The fact that this very amateurish campaign was conducted by russians matters not a whit. Putin could post anti hillary crap from his whore laden penthouse in Trump Tower and he would be protected.

Now, if they hired you, an obvious fellow traveller, to do their dirty work I guess you would have to register as a foreign agent. Suppose, though, they approached you as a special interest group and retained you. Is ignorance of their true nefarious identity a shield against prosecution? Is throwing you in the slammer really what the investigation was about? Suppose they spoke with a spanish accent, would that mean that you could be investigated for discrimination?

Is the crap that the Executive branch and the rest of us justified by this ongoing nonsense? WTF???
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Skeeve
Posts: 10748
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:35 am

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Skeeve » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:57 pm

Politics Mueller says Russians are altering evidence from special counsel’s investigation to discredit the probe

Say What?
Russians have obtained evidence from special counsel Robert Mueller’s inquiry into Moscow’s interference in US politics and altered it in a bid to discredit the probe, federal prosecutors have claimed.

The files were shared with attorneys working for Concord Management and Consulting, a Russian company that allegedly funded hacking operations by Russia’s Internet Research Agency (IRA), they said in a court filing.

The sharing evidence and documents between prosecutors and defence lawyer as part of routine discovery is common legal practice.

But the files shared by Mr Mueller's investigation were later uploaded and disseminated on Twitter in October.

However, the files shared online, "appear to have been altered and disseminated as part of a disinformation campaign aimed (apparently) at discrediting ongoing investigations into Russian interference in the US political system,” the court filing states.

A team had reviewed files to determine that roughly 1,000 files linked to by that account out of 300,000 available matched non-public evidence provided.

“The fact that the file folder names and folder structure on the webpage significantly match the non-public names and file structure of the materials produced in discovery, and the fact that over 1,000 files on the webpage match those produced in discovery, establish that the person(s) who created the webpage had access to at least some of the non-sensitive discovery produced by the government in this case,“ the filing states.

Concord Management was among 13 Russian entities or people to be charged in connection with Mr Mueller's investigation last February.

Mr Mueller’s team has charged dozens of Russian individuals or entities for attempting to influence the 2016 presidential election, primarily through hacking Democratic Party email systems.

The most recent filing argued that attorneys for Concord should not be given access to “sensitive” evidence gathered for the case.

It said: “The person who created the webpage used their knowledge of the non-sensitive discovery to make it appear as though the irrelevant files contained on the webpage were the sum total evidence of ‘IRA and Russian collusion’ gathered by law enforcement in this matter in an apparent effort to discredit the investigation."
What ever happened to "chain of custody?"
How did they get the evidence if you had it?

If you are claiming you have the "real" evindence, and you have kept chain of custody, then this is nothing more than "them" publishing things that are not true. You know, sort of like "Fake News" right?

I must be missing something here...
Then Skank Of America could start in...

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33907
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:11 pm

Flop sweat my boy, flop sweat.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!