California burning

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Anaxagoras
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Re: California burning

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:51 am

Zinke blames ‘environmental radicals’ for deadly California fires
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke blamed “environmental radicals” for the California wildfires that have killed at least 77 people, saying they stop forest management practices that could have prevented the fires.

Days after touring the damage of the Camp fire, the deadliest in California’s history, Zinke went on Breitbart News Sunday and declared “it’s not the time for finger-pointing” on the causes of the fires.

But minutes later, he put the blame squarely on environmentalists, contending that they stood in the way of clearing brush, doing prescribed burns and other actions.

“I will lay this on the foot of those environmental radicals that have prevented us from managing the forests for years. And you know what? This is on them,” Zinke said.
"It's not time for finger-pointing" but "It's those guys' fault." :roll:
The Sierra Club, the nation’s largest environmental group, criticized Zinke for his remarks, saying he should instead focus on recovery and the victims of the fires.

“Perhaps it’s the numerous investigations, the potential criminal charges eating at him, or the fact that he still doesn’t even know what department the Forest Service is under, but Ryan Zinke would best be served by focusing on the people rather than making disgusting and dangerous accusations,” Athan Manuel, the group’s public lands director, said in a statement.
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Doctor X
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Re: California burning

Post by Doctor X » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:55 am

She would have prevented the forest fires.

#ItWasHerTurn

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Surprise
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Re: California burning

Post by Surprise » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:00 am

WildCat wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:19 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:06 am
So are tariffs, taxes on cigarettes, etc.

A carbon tax is manipulation for a good purpose.
Carbon taxes are a tax on the poor. They can just freeze if they don't like it, right?
If you want you can give the refund from the collected taxes to the poor.

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ed
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Re: California burning

Post by ed » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:02 am

After they pay for the bureaucracy there won't be much left.
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ed
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Re: California burning

Post by ed » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:16 am

Wouldn't the prudent and economically sound response to be to establish sound forestry management procedures immediately? Carbon taxing is nice and and they can be discussed for years and years so that we get them just right.
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Witness
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Re: California burning

Post by Witness » Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:54 pm

Image
In a quiet forest of Finland, the Wild Roomba quietly does its important work of clearing the undergrowth.

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Rob Lister
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Re: California burning

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:00 am

That seems like an idea waiting to happen. Put the good folks at Boston Robotics together with the weenies at Alpha Zero and put Elon Musk in charge.

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Grammatron
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Re: California burning

Post by Grammatron » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm

Goats already exist, just fence an area and let them eat all the things.

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Rob Lister
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Re: California burning

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:33 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:54 pm
Goats already exist, just fence an area and let them eat all the things.
:x

true.

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Witness
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Re: California burning

Post by Witness » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:07 pm

Urban Historian Mike Davis Says Building In Malibu Will Never Be A Good Idea

The Woolsey Fire is not the first in Malibu, nor is it the first time residents have planned to rebuild. Urban historian Mike Davis tells NPR's Audie Cornish that maybe, it's better to let it burn.

AUDIE CORNISH, HOST:

Make your home in Malibu, and you eventually will face the flames. That's an early line from urban historian Mike Davis' essay "The Case For Letting Malibu Burn." That's from his 1995 book, "Ecology Of Fear." Some 20 years later, the Woolsey Fire has destroyed at least 1,500 structures in Malibu and scorched nearly 100,000 acres. People have already said they'll rebuild, and that's not surprising to Davis - the fire or the rebuilding. He joins us to talk about lessons he's learned from studying the history of fire in the region.
Rest of the (short) interview: https://www.npr.org/2018/11/20/66976116 ... 2841422482

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Anaxagoras
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Re: California burning

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:30 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... nt/576598/

Image
Climate change has led to an increase in the area burned by wildfire in the western United States. Analyses estimate that the area burned by wildfire from 1984 to 2015 was twice what would have burned had climate change not occurred. Furthermore, the area burned from 1916 to 2003 was more closely related to climate factors than to fire suppression, local fire management, or other non-climate factors.
:notsure:
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Grammatron
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Re: California burning

Post by Grammatron » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:41 am

Hmm
There’s new evidence that President Donald Trump has already made the planet hotter.
Oh yes, I am sure.
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WildCat
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Re: California burning

Post by WildCat » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:31 pm

Prior to 1985 there were almost no wildfires? And then they increased by 1000% naturally and half that because of climate change?

That chart reeks of bullshit.
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ed
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Re: California burning

Post by ed » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:39 pm

It ignores the impact of Spotted Owl habitat preservation.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: California burning

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:34 pm

Correlation is not causation.

In this case they got the causation backward.

Wildfires release a helluva lot of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
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Churchill
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Re: California burning

Post by Churchill » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:15 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:00 am
That seems like an idea waiting to happen. Put the good folks at Boston Robotics together with the weenies at Alpha Zero and put Elon Musk in charge.
You only wish you could be a weenie at Alpha Zero. (As do I)
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Witness
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Re: California burning

Post by Witness » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:38 am

Update:
California’s biggest utility is in deep trouble

PG&E’s role in starting wildfires could mean a break-up or even bankruptcy
Editor's note (January 14th 2019): Today PG&E announced that it was preparing to file for bankruptcy protection. This piece, on the firm’s role in starting wildfires in California, was published on January 10th.
CALIFORNIA’S largest utility is accustomed to disaster. In 2001 PG&E declared bankruptcy after the state mismanaged deregulation of the electricity market. In 2010 one of PG&E’S gas pipelines exploded. Its travails are even the stuff of Hollywood. “Erin Brockovich”, starring Julia Roberts, told the story of how the company let toxic wastewater run into groundwater supplies and had to settle a class-action lawsuit in 1996 for hundreds of millions of dollars. Nevertheless, PG&E’Scurrent turmoil marks the start of something new.

On January 7th the firm’s share price plunged by more than 20% on reports that it might declare bankruptcy. PG&Efaces billions of dollars of liabilities over its possible role in starting the wildfires that have ravaged California. Damages, legal fees and other costs from fires over the past two years may reach $29bn, estimates Goldman Sachs, a bank. That sum, which far exceeds the company’s $17bn in operating revenue in 2017, would be hard enough for PG&E to bear if it were an aberration. In fact, wildfire costs look set to become the norm.

The firm’s predicament is the result of several factors, some beyond its control and some self-inflicted. Hotter, dryer conditions and lax building standards have made California vulnerable to ravenous blazes. A utility’s operations would have to be near-perfect to keep power cables and other equipment from inadvertently sparking a fire, argues Michael Wara, an expert on energy and environmental policy at Stanford University. “What climate change does is make the consequences of small errors much greater,” he says, “greater to the point where they threaten the financial viability of the utility.”
https://www.economist.com/business/2019 ... ep-trouble