My turn for a TDS rant?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 33674
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:18 pm

Obama, Aug. 20, 2012: I have, at this point, not ordered military engagement in the situation. But the point that you made about chemical and biological weapons is critical. That’s an issue that doesn’t just concern Syria; it concerns our close allies in the region, including Israel. It concerns us. We cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people.

We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.

… We have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region that that’s a red line for us and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations significantly.
That lie has import. It ain't about whores or whether he has a man of the year magazine cover on his wall.

As did the Doctor lie.

Trumps lies are signs of personality flaw, Obama's where cynical manipulation and dangerous adventurism. And cowardice come to think of it.

Then there is Hillary ...
In 1996, New York Times columnist William Safire labeled her a "congenital liar."

Carl Bernstein, in his biography of Hillary, "A Woman in Charge," noted that she indulged in "subterfuge and eliding."

David Geffen, the Hollywood mogul, famously said, "Everyone in politics lies, but [the Clintons] do it with such ease, it's troubling."

And in my forthcoming book, "Guilty as Sin," which will be published October 4 and can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com, I write:

"Some observers compare Hillary to Lady Macbeth, whose vaulting ambition led to her downfall. In Hillary's case, her fatal flaw is dishonesty. She lies even when she doesn't have to."
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ed-kl ... id/744765/

Fucking David "Light in the loafers" Geffen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33799
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by Grammatron » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:55 pm

Ok, a lot of those are examples of the kind I'm talking about. So I must stipulate that Obama has done so sometimes.
Did anyone of them cause a TODS in the past?

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22396
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by gnome » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:34 pm

ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:18 pm
Obama, Aug. 20, 2012: I have, at this point, not ordered military engagement in the situation. But the point that you made about chemical and biological weapons is critical. That’s an issue that doesn’t just concern Syria; it concerns our close allies in the region, including Israel. It concerns us. We cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people.

We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.

… We have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region that that’s a red line for us and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations significantly.
That lie has import. It ain't about whores or whether he has a man of the year magazine cover on his wall.

As did the Doctor lie.

Trumps lies are signs of personality flaw, Obama's where cynical manipulation and dangerous adventurism. And cowardice come to think of it.

Then there is Hillary ...
In 1996, New York Times columnist William Safire labeled her a "congenital liar."

Carl Bernstein, in his biography of Hillary, "A Woman in Charge," noted that she indulged in "subterfuge and eliding."

David Geffen, the Hollywood mogul, famously said, "Everyone in politics lies, but [the Clintons] do it with such ease, it's troubling."

And in my forthcoming book, "Guilty as Sin," which will be published October 4 and can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com, I write:

"Some observers compare Hillary to Lady Macbeth, whose vaulting ambition led to her downfall. In Hillary's case, her fatal flaw is dishonesty. She lies even when she doesn't have to."
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ed-kl ... id/744765/

Fucking David "Light in the loafers" Geffen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I've stipulated that, but I'll say it again, that there are more significant lies being thrown around that don't cause such an emotional response in me.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22396
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by gnome » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:38 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:18 pm
gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:55 pm

Ok, a lot of those are examples of the kind I'm talking about. So I must stipulate that Obama has done so sometimes.
Did anyone of them cause a TODS in the past?
I'm going to that question of frequency, I think. I perceive it as happening more often--even when trying to account for that Trump makes overall more public statements than most presidents.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33674
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:34 pm
ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:18 pm
Obama, Aug. 20, 2012: I have, at this point, not ordered military engagement in the situation. But the point that you made about chemical and biological weapons is critical. That’s an issue that doesn’t just concern Syria; it concerns our close allies in the region, including Israel. It concerns us. We cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people.

We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation.

… We have communicated in no uncertain terms with every player in the region that that’s a red line for us and that there would be enormous consequences if we start seeing movement on the chemical weapons front or the use of chemical weapons. That would change my calculations significantly.
That lie has import. It ain't about whores or whether he has a man of the year magazine cover on his wall.

As did the Doctor lie.

Trumps lies are signs of personality flaw, Obama's where cynical manipulation and dangerous adventurism. And cowardice come to think of it.

Then there is Hillary ...
In 1996, New York Times columnist William Safire labeled her a "congenital liar."

Carl Bernstein, in his biography of Hillary, "A Woman in Charge," noted that she indulged in "subterfuge and eliding."

David Geffen, the Hollywood mogul, famously said, "Everyone in politics lies, but [the Clintons] do it with such ease, it's troubling."

And in my forthcoming book, "Guilty as Sin," which will be published October 4 and can be pre-ordered on Amazon.com and Barnesandnoble.com, I write:

"Some observers compare Hillary to Lady Macbeth, whose vaulting ambition led to her downfall. In Hillary's case, her fatal flaw is dishonesty. She lies even when she doesn't have to."
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ed-kl ... id/744765/

Fucking David "Light in the loafers" Geffen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think I've stipulated that, but I'll say it again, that there are more significant lies being thrown around that don't cause such an emotional response in me.
Obama lied to sell in his health care plan. He lied and got caught in it in the ME and that doubtless cost lives.
Which ones are you thinking of that are more significant?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33799
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by Grammatron » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:38 pm

I'm going to that question of frequency, I think. I perceive it as happening more often--even when trying to account for that Trump makes overall more public statements than most presidents.
That could also mean that you should pay better attention to other presidents' statements.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22396
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by gnome » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:41 pm

ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 pm
Obama lied to sell in his health care plan. He lied and got caught in it in the ME and that doubtless cost lives.
Which ones are you thinking of that are more significant?
You misunderstand, I am including that kind among the "more significant".

This is why I'm examining my own reactions. They're not in proportion to the significance, but I also don't think it's as simple as "I don't like Republicans".
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33674
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:11 pm

I think it is largely a question of style. Obama was charming and sincere when he lied. Trump says whatever comes into his head and dares you to call him on it.

Only thing ... he hasn't exacerbated a war ...yet.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33799
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by Grammatron » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:43 pm

ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:11 pm
I think it is largely a question of style. Obama was charming and sincere when he lied. Trump says whatever comes into his head and dares you to call him on it.

Only thing ... he hasn't exacerbated a war ...yet.
IMO it's a question of bias. Fox News watchers probably thought that President Obama was not a charming liar.

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 9136
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by xouper » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:10 pm

gnome wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:34 pm
. . . there are more significant lies being thrown around that don't cause such an emotional response in me.
Seems to me, that simply means you are no less human than the rest of us.

In general, external events trigger emotions only after they are filtered through our prejudices and biases and worldview.

I assume I'm not saying anything that wasn't already known.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33674
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by ed » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:30 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:43 pm
ed wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:11 pm
I think it is largely a question of style. Obama was charming and sincere when he lied. Trump says whatever comes into his head and dares you to call him on it.

Only thing ... he hasn't exacerbated a war ...yet.
IMO it's a question of bias. Fox News watchers probably thought that President Obama was not a charming liar.
I think obama was a disaster but he, to me at least, was a charming guy. Actually, I think that it would be fun to go to a gun show with him. Seriously. I think that if the cameras weren't on him he would have some interesting perspectives.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72373
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: My turn for a TDS rant?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:24 am

There certainly was Obama Derangement Syndrome, even if that particular trope was not used to describe it.

You know, all that Kenyan usurper stuff, etc. That Trump played to for a while.

The difference in kind is not in the syndrome itself, but in the current universality of it across all institutions and not just yahoos on the 'net.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale