What precisely is wrong with Trump?

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xouper
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by xouper » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:15 am

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:44 am
xouper wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:28 pm
sparks wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:05 pm
Your original quetion ed was "What precisely is wrong with Trump?", not "What precisely has Trump done wrong that inspires so much butthurt?"

Stop moving the goalposts. :)
If you want to quibble about the way ed phrased his question or where the goalposts should be, may I suggest that rather than (falsely) accuse ed of moving them, why not propose the topic be expanded to include your version of the question?

Or to put it another way, may I be so bold to suggest that instead of pointless bickering, as you seem to be doing here, why not give ed the benefit of the doubt that he was asking a sincere question and then work cooperatively towards a mutual understanding of what he was asking.
You may suggest anything you like. Fortunately for us all, you are not a moderator here. :)
Even if I were a moderator, I couldn’t do anything since you haven’t broken any rules.

The rules here allow you to run your mouth here same as anyone else. I was simply doing the same. In effect, I was complaining about your complaint. :wink:

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ed
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:44 pm

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:49 am
ed wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:41 pm
We are a bunch of reasonably smart and politically aware folks here which is why I asked the original question.

I have not seen any substantive criticism of Trump. The dislike/hatred seems to revolve around his style more than anything else.

It is sounding a like like a modern manifestation of the two minutes hate from 1984.

No one mentioned Russia, BTW.
Fine then. I retract my assertion that you moved the goal posts. For you it appears that his style is not substantive. Many think it is. Let's move along now, shall we? :)
I quoted Sontag on style, that shows my deep deep appreciation of it. But it is the package, the man in his totality that has to be evaluated, I think.

Saying that the guy comports himself badly is no different from saying that Colin Powell cannot make a good SecState because he is black. Neither characteristic is under the individuals control and neither has an impact on their performance, necessarily.

Heard something yesterday... the "smoking gun" again. Seems some Trump minion showed the russians polling data. The implication being that it was used to target the vaunted ad campaign. Seems that the info was public already. Did not stop the headline tho'. More fake news and another cul de sac in my hunt for the real problem with Trump.

Style is a problem but it is not enough to explain the level of dismissiveness or animosity.
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ed
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:49 pm

sparks wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:05 pm
Your original quetion ed was "What precisely is wrong with Trump?", not "What precisely has Trump done wrong that inspires so much butthurt?"

Stop moving the goalposts. :) As for the Rooskies, the investigation isn't over yet. Nor will it be until Mango is out of the Dummycrats way I'm betting.
I didn't move them as much as added a second set to make it easier to get a fucking cogent answer. Pick a set, kick the ball. So far I got nada.

If this doesn't work I'll expand the range of acceptable answers to include his choice of ties.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by sparks » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:37 pm

"Saying that the guy comports himself badly is no different from saying that Colin Powell cannot make a good SecState because he is black. "

Are you serious? Comporting oneself in a reasonable and civilized fashion is part of the job dear ed.

" Neither characteristic is under the individuals control and neither has an impact on their performance, necessarily."

Comportment is under the individuals control. Being an African-American is not.

"If this doesn't work I'll expand the range of acceptable answers to include his choice of ties."

No need: He doesn't pick his ties. Your Mom does. :)
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ed
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:31 pm

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:37 pm
"Saying that the guy comports himself badly is no different from saying that Colin Powell cannot make a good SecState because he is black. "

Are you serious? Comporting oneself in a reasonable and civilized fashion is part of the job dear ed.

" Neither characteristic is under the individuals control and neither has an impact on their performance, necessarily."

Comportment is under the individuals control. Being an African-American is not.

"If this doesn't work I'll expand the range of acceptable answers to include his choice of ties."

No need: He doesn't pick his ties. Your Mom does. :)
Comporting oneself in a reasonable and civilized fashion is part of the job dear ed.
"Civilized" as in the way of the white masters? The man is a boor, so? If he accomplishes something substantive he wins, boorish behavior aside. Or do we have a "style penalty"?

No, comportment is learned at an early age and becomes intrinsic to the person.

My mama could kick your ass, even at 94.

ETA But I am getting it. It is effete and elitist. If the guy does not pass the style test (unless he is a member of a protected group) nothing he does matters.

I really think that that is about it.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm

He sucks hobo balls.

Precise enough?
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:49 pm

Anax: You are playing into ed's hands now.

Next thing you know, you'll be writing elegies to some anthropoid.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:51 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm
He sucks hobo balls.

Precise enough?
But if he were transgender you would go to the wall to defend him, no? You would start a HoboBalls Gofundme to cover a PR campaign extolling the virtues of hobo ball sucking. Right?
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:55 pm

See what I mean, Anax?

Better give it up now.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:55 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:51 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm
He sucks hobo balls.

Precise enough?
But if he were transgender you would go to the wall to defend him, no? You would start a HoboBalls Gofundme to cover a PR campaign extolling the virtues of hobo ball sucking. Right?
His hobo balls sucking skills pale in comparison to your mothers' :freedom:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:13 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:55 pm
ed wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:51 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm
He sucks hobo balls.

Precise enough?
But if he were transgender you would go to the wall to defend him, no? You would start a HoboBalls Gofundme to cover a PR campaign extolling the virtues of hobo ball sucking. Right?
His hobo balls sucking skills pale in comparison to your mothers' :freedom:
Sorry Bro.

Just plain super-lame-o.

Not unlike ed. :P
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Giz
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Giz » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:29 pm

Don't get into a hobo ball suckling contest. You get dirty and besides, ed likes it.

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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:49 pm
Anax: You are playing into ed's hands now.

Next thing you know, you'll be writing elegies to some anthropoid.
I would thank you to leave my pull toys alone.
Go get your own.
:x
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sparks
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by sparks » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:31 pm
sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:37 pm
"Saying that the guy comports himself badly is no different from saying that Colin Powell cannot make a good SecState because he is black. "

Are you serious? Comporting oneself in a reasonable and civilized fashion is part of the job dear ed.

" Neither characteristic is under the individuals control and neither has an impact on their performance, necessarily."

Comportment is under the individuals control. Being an African-American is not.

"If this doesn't work I'll expand the range of acceptable answers to include his choice of ties."

No need: He doesn't pick his ties. Your Mom does. :)
Comporting oneself in a reasonable and civilized fashion is part of the job dear ed.
"Civilized" as in the way of the white masters? The man is a boor, so? If he accomplishes something substantive he wins, boorish behavior aside. Or do we have a "style penalty"?

No, comportment is learned at an early age and becomes intrinsic to the person.

My mama could kick your ass, even at 94.

ETA But I am getting it. It is effete and elitist. If the guy does not pass the style test (unless he is a member of a protected group) nothing he does matters.

I really think that that is about it.
So, when he comports himself as a boor, and this fouls up relations with our allies and gives aid and comfort the our enemies, this doesn't matter?

Bullshit. You're wrong on this one ed. Just admit it and you'll feel better. Problem is, all his base think this is just fucking ducky. Drain the swamp. Build a wall. Grab some pussy. Pay off hookers. Carry on like a petulant 9 year old in the public discourse.

Sure. You fucking bet.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by xouper » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:57 pm

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm
So, when he comports himself as a boor, and this fouls up relations with our allies and gives aid and comfort the our enemies, this doesn't matter?
Assumes facts not in evidence.

Your subjective interpretations do not count as objective facts. Repeating liberal talking points also does not count as objective facts.

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm
Bullshit. You're wrong on this one ed.
Not necessarily. You merely disagree with him. You have not made a good argument that he is wrong.

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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by shuize » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:09 am

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm
So, when he comports himself as a boor, and this fouls up relations with our allies and gives aid and comfort the our enemies, this doesn't matter?

Bullshit. You're wrong on this one ed. Just admit it and you'll feel better. Problem is, all his base think this is just fucking ducky. Drain the swamp. Build a wall. Grab some pussy. Pay off hookers. Carry on like a petulant 9 year old in the public discourse.

Sure. You fucking bet.

I stated above that I am not a big fan. But I'll grant every one of those things and still take him over "Her Turn" every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by sparks » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:15 am

Very well.

Done debating both you, ed, and xoup on this one.


Carry on friends.
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:29 am

shuize wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:09 am
I stated above that I am not a big fan. But I'll grant every one of those things and still take him over "Her Turn" every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
To take this spark's hobo ball sucking seriously, his charges would apply to The Messiah as well as Her Turn. Would probably apply to King Ronald and, yes, even Malaise.

You know he had a Dead Hooker[Tm.--Ed.] buried under some peanuts.

"By Definition," having an opinion or policy different means "TREASONS!"

Try to be fair here, hobos say spark's tongue is Not Nice and prefer Anax but, then, he does live in Japan. If they wanted Meth Tongue they would just go to Reno.

Anyways, as naïve combined with self-important as Obama was, as destructive as he was to U.S. foreign relations, I really, sincerely, do not think he tried to destroy them. I am sure he thought he was helping with his pledges to Putin--as did George the Younger, and even Trump.

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ed
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by ed » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:43 am

So we are left with style
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Re: What precisely is wrong with Trump?

Post by gnome » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:43 pm

sparks wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:10 pm
So, when he comports himself as a boor, and this fouls up relations with our allies and gives aid and comfort the our enemies, this doesn't matter?
He gets under my skin as much as almost anyone here, but if he's doing the "aid and comfort" thing, this isn't how. That terminology generally refers to material aid and comfort, as part of the definition of treason. Using it as part of a lesser criticism is a cheap trick to associate it with actual treason. The phrase isn't for the consequences of rhetoric or blundering.

Kind of like my hackles go up when someone misuses "clear and present danger". That's terminology once used to argue First Amendment exceptions. Not only that, the doctrine that it once supported has changed to a tighter standard, so it's a misuse even in its original context, except for historic descriptions.

I've gone on the same rant on Obama's behalf, so consistency demands I do the same here.
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