the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47950
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 pm

Was listening to this on BBC news on the radio (my local NPR station plays BBC news during this time of day). Interesting case. Long story made short:

Some woman in Saudi Arabia flees the country to get away from an abusive husband and family, ends up in Thailand. She entered Thailand legally but broke Saudi law by not getting the permission of a male family member to travel. Saudi Arabia demands her back and the Thai authorities initially comply but she barricades herself in her hotel room, it becomes big news in Thailand, and the Thai authorities relent and allow her to turn herself over to a UN agency who will allegedly "assess her status" and help her out. Which is where it stands as of today.

Rahaf al-Qunun: Saudi woman ends airport hotel standoff

It's kind of a fucked up situation and a prime example of why I am never a proponent of following the law simply because its the law. And the story on the radio mentioned that this is not the first time such a situation has come up (it mentioned a similar case in the Philipines). I wonder how it would play out if it happened in the US.
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
xouper
Posts: 9126
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:52 am
Location: HockeyTown USA

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by xouper » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:31 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 pm
It's kind of a fucked up situation and a prime example of why I am never a proponent of following the law simply because its the law.
I got no beef with that.

If I were in a position to help that woman escape to a more free country, I would.

And now for the obligatory meme:

Image

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 72325
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:20 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 pm
... broke Saudi law by not getting the permission of a male family member to travel. ...
It's not merely Saudi law. Muhammad himself said so. And Muhammad was repeating what the archangel Gabriel told him Allah said.

She disobeyed God Himself, not merely the dictates of the Saud family (which incidentally she was also required to obey). :MuhammadBoom:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47950
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:47 am

Yeah, well the part the Thai government gave a shit about was the “Dictates of the Saud family”
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:19 am

In the Japanese Original BBC article, they note that the same thing happened to a young woman a few years ago. She was forcibly sent back to Saudi Arabia and, Heavens to Betsy, no one has heard from her since.

But, like, put on a "Pussy Hat" and scream at Trump while supporting Sharia law, girls.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
WildCat
Posts: 14260
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The 33rd Ward, Chicago

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by WildCat » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:43 am

Let's not forget that Women's March co-founder Linda Sarsour said that Ayaan Hirsi Ali should have her vagina removed for the same "crime". And she's a US citizen who inspires a Ben & Jerry's ice cream flavor. And the Democrats want to import more of these 3rd world savages into the country.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:47 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 pm
I wonder how it would play out if it happened in the US.
The Saudi women afraid to go home

Tl;dr: Yes, Saudi women in similar circumstances have been granted asylum in the US. Not quite this extreme, with her passport being seized by a Saudi diplomat at the airport and all that, but yes.
Spoiler:
Decision Day
Arwa went through the application process without a lawyer. Instead, she relied on friends who had already been granted asylum, reading advice online, and the moral support of her American boyfriend.
At the Houston immigration office, she waited patiently, having arrived a few minutes before her 7 a.m. appointment.
Her name was called by a clerk at a booth.
"Your application for asylum in the United States of America has been successful," the official told her.
Relieved, she let out a deep breath and began to cry.
A couple of minutes later, after some forms had been signed and some documents exchanged, she was told she was free to go.
A journey that began with a late-night escape from Saudi Arabia and two years of anxiety seemed to end so simply and so suddenly.
On her way out, an Iraqi family congratulated Arwa on her asylum, frantically asking her questions about her application as they looked to her as a sign of hope.
Once outside, she called her boyfriend, told him that she wasn't going anywhere.
Then she got in her car, sat behind the wheel and drove away.
Happy ending! :D At least in this case.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47950
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Nyarlathotep » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:01 am

Doctor X wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:19 am
In the Japanese Original BBC article, they note that the same thing happened to a young woman a few years ago. She was forcibly sent back to Saudi Arabia and, Heavens to Betsy, no one has heard from her since.

But, like, put on a "Pussy Hat" and scream at Trump while supporting Sharia law, girls.

--J.D.
m

The story on the radio where I first heard of this also mentioned that even wealthy, well connected, women who DON’T leave the country have a nasty habit of disappearing
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 am

Yup to both.

Women are still required to have permission from a male to open a bank account, among other things.

Of course, when an entire gender is seen as little more than chattel, it is much easier to kill them if you are a parent. Why I find Modern Feminism[Tm.--Ed.] in the West [Tm.--Ed.] so disgustingly useless. We got more outrage about the Saudi's killing a critic--not to diminish that--then any of this.

Just for Gram's Mom and Giggles, I turned on Faux for a bit before watching what is looking like a defensive duel of a National Championship, to see if this was covered.

It was not.

Has the Mika'nJoeNetwork or Clinton News Network covered it?

Anyways, as the article indicates, the only reason she basically survived is she barricaded herself in her hotel room and used Al Gore's Interwebs to put pressure on the Thai government.

Fucking sad all around, but it looks like it could be a second "happy ending" in that a woman is not murdered by her own family.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:41 am

Doctor X wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 am
Of course, when an entire gender is seen as little more than chattel
Just a thought: if there was a country that openly practiced legalized chattel slavery in this day and age, that country would probably be an international pariah state at best.

If people could just equate the guardianship system with chattel slavery, could they not see it with equal horror? The former was based on race, the latter on sex, but otherwise, how is the condition of being a woman in Saudi Arabia any different from being a slave?

I don't think the retort can be, "well many or most Saudi women seem to accept this arrangement. Who are we to be cultural imperialists and impose our values on them?" Just because some slaves were treated well by their masters, or some slaves accepted that this was the natural order of the world, because that's what they had been raised and conditioned to believe, was not a valid reason to allow it.

I haven't seen The Handmaid's Tale or read the book, but I understand that it's a kind of dytopian genre fiction in which women have all their rights taken away. It had a "moment" and perhaps it still is, when trump won the election:

The Handmaid’s Tale held a mirror up to a year of Trump (The Guardian)
Why The Handmaid's Tale is so relevant today (The BBC)
There were many more like these written on other lefty or mainstream websites but I won't spam you with a dozen more links.

But meanwhile Saudi Arabia actually exists! It's not a work of fiction. The women of Saudi Arabia have probably no more rights than the "handmaids" from The Handmaid’s Tale.

I don't know. OTOH, it is a foreign country after all, and there's scores of other shitholes and despotic regimes all over the world, and it isn't realistic for middle-class people to spend a great deal of their time thinking about the problems of people living in far away countries.

Fuck.

But anyway, the main point is, the guardianship system ≈ chattel slavery or The Handmaid’s Tale. Modulo sex-based rather than race-based.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:10 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:41 am
Of course, when an entire gender is seen as little more than chattel
Just a thought: if there was a country that openly practiced legalized chattel slavery in this day and age, that country would probably be an international pariah state at best.[/quote]

What country is hosting the next World Cup of Soccer?

How much of a pariah is it?

Or any of these countries?
. . . but otherwise, how is the condition of being a woman in Saudi Arabia any different from being a slave?
Now they can drive . . . with permission from a man? :hyper:
I don't think the retort can be, "well many or most Saudi women seem to accept this arrangement. Who are we to be cultural imperialists and impose our values on them?"
But it will. See the defense of wearing burkha, veils, and other such "We Can't Not Let Us be Seen as Human and Men Will Get Rapey because its Our Fault for being Women" excuses.
I haven't seen The Handmaid's Tale or read the book, but I understand that it's a kind of dytopian genre fiction in which women have all their rights taken away. It had a "moment" and perhaps it still is, when trump won the election:
Whenever the Republicans win, because the regime that takes power is a Christian Fundamentalist regime. I suppose I should look beyond the dog whistle it is.
But meanwhile Saudi Arabia actually exists! It's not a work of fiction. The women of Saudi Arabia have probably no more rights than the "handmaids" from The Handmaid’s Tale.
Here is everything Margret Atwood has said about Saudi Arabia: Tweet

But, like, call actresses "actors" and claim all opposition to the Flavor-of-Month Idiot from New York is "sexist," and recognizing the hypocrisy of a supporter of such nonsense calling Trump a "motherfucker" pretending it is perfectly fine, because THAT will help!

Now, excuse me, I need to eat some more creamed beet liver to help the starving children in North Korea. . . .

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:18 am

To be clear, this is the hypocrisy of an Obama, Pelosi, and all of them on the Democratic side.

They do not give a shit about these people.

Now the Republicans never pretended they did.

Perhaps you recall the Republican butt-hurt over Bush the Younger sending money to Africa for AIDS treatment and education beyond "witches are responsible!" The very fact Our Tax Payer's Money went to Africa cause Tinkerbell's anus to stretch an extra six inches.

This is, perhaps, a bit Nyarlesque in its extreme, but the facts remain. Pelosi and Schumer blubber about illegal immigrants "at the border" but have nothing to say about Turkey. Nor do Insert Your Republican Politician Here.

Part of it is, though, reality. WHAT exactly do "we" do?

While Bubba considers his utter non-handling of the Rwanda Genocide--including refusing to call it that--his biggest mistake, the Republicans were not exactly lining up demanding "we do something." Nor were the Brits, French, or anyone else who was not a Canadian general told to put a stop to it with Jazz Hands.

Fine.

"We" can still at least pretend to care by speaking out against it and not pretending that allowing someone who disagrees with your view point is a greater tragedy to human sanity.

In the rain.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:44 am

I will correct that channel flipping during a break in this most exciting game, Fox will cover the case.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 22484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:57 pm

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47950
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:11 pm

Good news.

The saddest part is that if she hadn't have had the presence of mind to barricade herself in that hotel room and publicize the shit out of what was going on, she'd probably be dead right now.
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

shuize
Posts: 555
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:32 am

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by shuize » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:37 pm

Good for Thailand.

But this quote from the article made me laugh:

"Thailand is a land of smiles. We will not send anyone to die."

I think the editors cut the rest of that quote which went something like, "... except when you bring drugs into Thailand. Then we will happily kill you."

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 68299
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: the Rahaf al-Qunun Affair

Post by Doctor X » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 pm

From the article:
More recently, Hakeem al-Araibi, 25, a former soccer player from Bahrain who had been granted refugee status in Australia after speaking out against a Bahraini official, was detained in late November in Thailand. He was traveling to the Southeast Asian country for his honeymoon when he was stopped.

Australian Foreign Minister Marise Payne said Thursday she raised her concerns over his continued detention with Thai authorities during a visit to Bangkok this week.

“The Thai government is most certainly aware of the importance of this matter to Australia,” Payne told reporters.
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!