Gavin McInnes Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by xouper » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:00 am

Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:27 am
xouper wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:20 am
Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:00 am
The definition require a government actor.
No it doesn't.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition . . .
You better tell Webster to change their wrong definition.
That definition does not require that a fascist be a government actor.

If you are you arguing that a private actor cannot be a fascist if they do not stand for a centralized autocratic government, then I will point out that most accusations of fascism are false under that requirement, especially including the claims made by antifa.

If you want to argue that my use of the word fascism was pedantically incorrect on that basis, then I will ask what label would you like better that describes oppression and censorship of opposition thought?

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by ed » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:10 am

xouper wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:53 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:15 pm
xouper wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:34 pm
Deplatforming of this kind may be legal but it is still fascism and un-American. Especially when the new fascist left doesn't deplatform hate groups they agree with.
:?
I don't see how a private social media company making decisions on who to keep on their platform is a form of fascism.
It isn't.

How did the Supreme Court decide that wedding cake case? I believe they ruled in favor of the baker. He doesn't have to bake a cake (decorate a cake to be pedantic) with a message that he doesn't agree with. Conservatives saw this as a victory for religious freedom. Well, if the cake decorator doesn't have to make a message that he doesn't agree with, why should other private companies like massive social media platforms be forced to allow content on their platforms that they don't agree with?
That is not an accurate interpretation of what the court said. The wedding cake case is not legally equivalent to social media deplatforming of speech they don't like.

errrrr no
The court did not rule that the Constitution grants the right to discriminate but maintained the longstanding principle that business owners cannot deny equal access to goods and services.
If you offer a public accommodation it is public. That is why racist private clubs are private.

At some point there will be cases that test some of these principles, I suspect that the parties are choosing. But a facebook or google making decisions of what or what is not proper, particularly if there are political overtones might not be proper. Particularly since there is more than a whiff of monopoly here and one that is more pervasive and onerous than AT&T.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Doctor X » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:10 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:31 pm
How did the Supreme Court decide that wedding cake case? I believe they ruled in favor of the baker. He doesn't have to bake a cake (decorate a cake to be pedantic) with a message that he doesn't agree with.
I thought they ruled that the state commission who investigated showed religious bias against the baker.

And, indeed, once again, but this should surprise no one, I prove correct:
. . . the opinion by Justice Anthony Kennedy rested largely on the majority’s conclusion that the Colorado administrative agency that ruled against Phillips treated him unfairly by being too hostile to his sincere religious beliefs. The opinion seemed to leave open the possibility that, in a future case, a service provider’s sincere religious beliefs might have to yield to the state’s interest in protecting the rights of same-sex couples, and the majority did not rule at all on one of the central arguments in the case – whether compelling Phillips to bake a cake for a same-sex couple would violate his right to freedom of speech.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:18 am

OK, my bad. They did rule in favor of the baker, but didn't really create a new precedent as far as the central question.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by ed » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:30 am

Two years ago here
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45601&p=851183&hili ... en#p851183
I commented on the abuses of the Chief Executive vis a vis privacy. In that context I quoted Moglen:
“fastening the procedures of totalitarianism on the substance of democratic society.”

I see now that it was not the formal government who we should be concerned about. It is the media, primarily. We are seeing our ability to communicate being strangled, if the positions that we hold are incorrect.

And, yes, the manifestation is fascism.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Doctor X » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:30 am

They punted.

--J.D.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by corplinx » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:22 pm

Splc has been used as neutral censor for twitter, YouTube, etc and has been key in providing fodder for no platform campaigns.

I'm not a fan of Gavin but someone had to go after these people and expose how key SPLC has been to mass censorship.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:16 pm

Unite the Right rally
Main article: Unite the Right rally
In June, McInnes disavowed the then-upcoming Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.[33] However, Proud Boys were at the August 2017 alt-right event, which was organized by white supremacist Jason Kessler.[73] Kessler had joined the Proud Boys some time before organizing the event.[74][75][76] McInnes said he had kicked Kessler out after his views on race had become clear.[33] After the rally, Kessler accused McInnes of using him as a "patsy" and said: "You're trying to cuck and save your own ass."[15] Alex Michael Ramos, one of the men convicted for the assault of DeAndre Harris which took place at the rally, was associated with the Proud Boys and Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights.[77]

2018 Metropolitan Republican Club
In October 2018 McInnes gave a talk at the Metropolitan Republican Club on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. He stepped out of his car wearing glasses with Asian eyes drawn on the front and pulled a samurai sword out of its sheath. Police forced him inside. Later, inside the event, McInnes and an Asian member of the Proud Boys re-enacted the 1960 murder of Inejiro Asanuma, the leader of the Japanese Socialist Party; a captioned photograph of the actual murder had become a meme in alt-right social media.[34] The audience for the event was described by The New York Times as "a cross-section of New York’s far-right subculture: libertarians, conspiracy theorists and nationalists who have coalesced around their opposition to Islam, feminism and liberal politics."[78]
WTF?
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by ed » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 pm

The thing is that there is really no organized white nationalist anything, just some nuts jibber jabbing about. What is going to happen is that the leftis going to create an opposition out of whole cloth.

Its a little like lion cubs bothering dad. He puts up with ear pulls and nips on the butt but eventually he says "thats enough". It would or might be different if there were some coherence to progressive philosophy but it seems made up and vile and full of hate. I note that RCC, who ought to know better, just redefined racism to mean something entirely alien. At some point the mass of money and power is going to assert itself in ways that might not be entirely pleasant and then you might see a real white nationalist movement. And when that happens the fault will lie entirely with the progressives and the media (maybe more so). I note that I have yet to hear any pushback from the MSM on the silly green agenda being propounded by a bunch of chicks (and Cory Booker) . Not one person asked "How?"
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 pm

xouper wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:00 am

That definition does not require that a fascist be a government actor.

If you are you arguing that a private actor cannot be a fascist if they do not stand for a centralized autocratic government, then I will point out that most accusations of fascism are false under that requirement, especially including the claims made by antifa.

If you want to argue that my use of the word fascism was pedantically incorrect on that basis, then I will ask what label would you like better that describes oppression and censorship of opposition thought?
Censorship works just fine. A private entity can censor another private entity or individual on their platform.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Doctor X » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 pm

On that idiot Kessler, from his Wiki page:
In late August, live stream video surfaced of Kessler in which he reveals that due to numerous lawsuits filed against him, he has moved in with his parents. Kessler's father can be heard in the video berating him and demanding that he stop recording white supremacist content in his father's room.
"If you want to record white supremacy, go outside!"

--J.D.
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Giz » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 pm
On that idiot Kessler, from his Wiki page:
In late August, live stream video surfaced of Kessler in which he reveals that due to numerous lawsuits filed against him, he has moved in with his parents. Kessler's father can be heard in the video berating him and demanding that he stop recording white supremacist content in his father's room.
"If you want to record white supremacy, go outside!"

--J.D.
He evidently needs more 'living room'.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by ed » Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:36 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 pm
On that idiot Kessler, from his Wiki page:
In late August, live stream video surfaced of Kessler in which he reveals that due to numerous lawsuits filed against him, he has moved in with his parents. Kessler's father can be heard in the video berating him and demanding that he stop recording white supremacist content in his father's room.
"If you want to record white supremacy, go outside!"

--J.D.
Ed wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:06 pm

The thing is that there is really no organized white nationalist anything, just some nuts jibber jabbing about.
QED
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:35 pm

I think it boils down to this -- If we reach a point where the only successful political agitation method for non-ruling-class types is identity politics, white folks will get into the act too.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:50 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:35 pm
I think it boils down to this -- If we reach a point where the only successful political agitation method for non-ruling-class types is identity politics, white folks will get into the act too.
We're at that point. Trump is a result of that point.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by xouper » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 pm
Censorship works just fine. A private entity can censor another private entity or individual on their platform.
In general I agree with that.

However, Facebook and Twitter (et al) have gone beyond being a mere private entity and hold themselves forth as a public square for everyone.

If Facebook or Twitter censored someone because (to choose two hypotheticals) they are black or Muslim, do you seriously propose there won't be legal consequences?

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:03 pm

xouper wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:53 pm
Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 pm
Censorship works just fine. A private entity can censor another private entity or individual on their platform.
In general I agree with that.

However, Facebook and Twitter (et al) have gone beyond being a mere private entity and hold themselves forth as a public square for everyone.
I do not agree. Perhaps that's why we're having a disagreement in definitions.
If Facebook or Twitter censored someone because (to choose two hypotheticals) they are black or Muslim, do you seriously propose there won't be legal consequences?
If Facebook or Twitter censored a hypothetical Black and/or Muslim individual because of perceived ties to some extremist organization I am of the opinion that there would be no legal consequence.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:11 pm

Facebook and Twitter may tout themselves as whatever, but they are not and structurally cannot be a public square for everyone.
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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by xouper » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:15 pm

I guess I shall let it go that we have a disagreement.

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Re: Proud Boys Founder Files Defamation Lawsuit Against Southern Poverty Law Center

Post by WildCat » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:24 pm

I think a better case could be made that they are violating anti-trust laws.
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