GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Grammatron » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:31 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:I doubt well known movie critics fare better than celebrities. Esepcially since its their job to have an opinion and lots of people don't like other people having opinions different than theirs.

Basically, I am saying if it is wrong for one side to do it, it is wrong for the other. If it is ok for one, then it is ok for the other. Anything else is hypocrisy.
It's not a right or wrong thing. The nature of twitter is everyone can send you crazy shit. You can ignore, respond, or just delete. Leslie Jones tried door number 2 and was not ready to handle Xbox Live/4 chan.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:20 am

Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Has anyone been attacked like Leslie Jones? That is the equal and opposite set of idiots.
Only every celebrity on Twitter.
I don't do the Twitter but I doubt that.

She was called a racial slur right in this thread. You can imagine what the Twitter trolls are saying.
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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:37 am

Twitter Bars Milo Yiannopoulos in Wake of Leslie Jones’s Reports of Abuse (NY Times)
SAN FRANCISCO — For years, one of the main grievances among Twitter users has been the ability of anonymous trolls to send abusive comments to other people on the service.

But on Tuesday, Twitter barred one of the most egregious and consistent offenders of its terms of service, Milo Yiannopoulos, in an attempt to show that it is cracking down on abuse.

The ban against Mr. Yiannopoulos, a technology editor at the conservative news site Breitbart and known by his Twitter handle, @Nero, follows a campaign of prolonged abuse against Leslie Jones, a comedian and co-star of the recently released “Ghostbusters” movie. The film and its stars have come under fire from various parts of the internet for months, after it was first revealed that the reboot of the 1984 film would feature an all-female cast.

Ms. Jones in particular has borne the brunt of the online abuse in recent days, especially since the release of “Ghostbusters” in the United States on Friday. Hundreds of anonymous Twitter commenters hurled racist and sexist remarks at the star’s Twitter account, rallied and directed by Mr. Yiannopoulos this week. The news media picked up on the abuse after Ms. Jones began retweeting screenshots of the litany of comments sent to her over the past few days.

On Monday evening, Ms. Jones quit using Twitter with a final message of exasperation after days of near-nonstop abuse. “I leave Twitter tonight with tears and a very sad heart,” Ms. Jones tweeted. “All this cause I did a movie.”

In a statement, a Twitter spokesman said: “People should be able to express diverse opinions and beliefs on Twitter. But no one deserves to be subjected to targeted abuse online, and our rules prohibit inciting or engaging in the targeted abuse or harassment of others.”
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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:08 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Has anyone been attacked like Leslie Jones? That is the equal and opposite set of idiots.
Only every celebrity on Twitter.
I don't do the Twitter but I doubt that.

She was called a racial slur right in this thread. You can imagine what the Twitter trolls are saying.
All famous people on Twitter deal with this shit.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:09 am

Grammatron wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:Has anyone been attacked like Leslie Jones? That is the equal and opposite set of idiots.
Only every celebrity on Twitter.
I don't do the Twitter but I doubt that.

She was called a racial slur right in this thread. You can imagine what the Twitter trolls are saying.
All famous people on Twitter deal with this shit.
Perhaps. But I doubt they all have to deal with the same amount of it. 2 or 3 abusive comments per week probably feels different than 100 per hour.
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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by corplinx » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:57 pm

Grammatron wrote: All famous people on Twitter deal with this shit.
Jones started complaining about twitter trolls and then when Milo told her that it happens to everyone and to deal with it. She went emo ballistic which caused a shitstorm of trolls to descend.


Anax, I used the term she-boon (or is it sheboon?) to describe the stereotype her character seemed to portray in the trailers.

I did not say that she is one, I said that her character as represented seemed to be a negative racial stereotype.

Meanwhile, some of the reviews I've seen/read say that they snipped her loudest shit and put it in the trailer. That her character was one of the least ... quirky try-hard? That hers was the most relatable/grounded. Which is good.

Jones' twitter shit storm was part of a tit for tat that she should have known to bail on early as a celebrity.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:26 pm

Corps, I know you're not a racist, but you could have made that point without using that word is all I'm saying.

I know its just us white dudes here anymore but maybe there's a reason for that. If a celebrity had posted that on their Facebook they would have been flayed alive. And I realize that wasn't your intention, but you prefaced it with saying its a word used by white supremacists, but then you kinda went and used it anyway. And yeah, I see the point you were trying to make. It wan't necessary to use that word to make it.
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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by corplinx » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:06 pm

When talking on a public forum, there are words we try not to use because we are not supposed to.

Sometimes I wonder if the self-censoring is worth it when discussing things. Is there a perfect answer?

I will note that I am not the only person to say that the trailer reminded them of that stereotype but that most people wouldnt identify that actual stereotype.

Race is a sensitive issue and after being on the short end of the stick in America for so long, I understand why African Americans don't want to hear white people use racially insensitive language even if it is to name the evil being discussed.

I get that.

So what is the right answer? I am unsure. To use language that is hurtful, even to discuss it, feels weird. There aren't equivalent words that make white people feel that way. It is hard to put yourself in the shoes of a disenfranchised minority who suspects you are using a word even to discuss the word, just to say the word out loud so that you can be passive aggressively obnoxious.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Doctor X » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:37 pm

Trying to avoid the Wall of Text. This subject has been sort of covered by Your Humble MagNIfIcence on the subject Chris Rock and terms like "Uncle Tom." I will "spoil" the background.
Spoiler:
Uncle Tom: came from a discussion with Michael Holley--a black sports dude--on the radio with his white partner. It had to do with a 30-for-30 documentary over the "Fab-Five" from years ago. Blah . . . blah . . . one of the said "Fab-Five" called the Duke players "Uncle Toms." This comes out in the documentary, now years after, but it causes one of the Duke players now NBA star to respond in an article . . . blah . . . blah.

White Dude asks if it is really "the word." How does he raise it? Holley mentioned it was and even had on a former Patriot who got real quiet when the subject came up. Basically, you want to insult a black man, I mean really insult him, you call him that.

Chris Rock: how the hell do you discuss his comedy? His comedy upset people for "airing dirty laundry."
That aside, the first has to deal with how do anyone not black have a discussion of such words? White Dude thought--as I think a lot of white/Hispanic/Chinese/French/Et cetera think--that The N-Word is "the word." Pretend it is. How do non-blacks discuss it without coming off as racist? You have all heard the excuse: "But they call themselves Ni[CENSORED--Ed.]ers!"

"Yeah . . . and your point?"

I also do not call Italians "wops," Chinese "Chinks," Japanese "Japs" or "Nips," Mexicans "Spics" or "Beaners," Jews "Hebes," et cetera ad nauseum.

Which brings me to the "Uncle Tom": Rock's Jap Original "Bring the Pain" concert deals with this with respect to the stereotype. You or I or anyone not black tell those jokes? Forget it! Understood.

Sooooooooo . . . how do you criticize a black actress playing a stereotype? It is not easy. How do you discuss it without using the name of the stereotype?

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by corplinx » Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:53 pm

You can discuss the mandingo stereotype or the pickaninny and no one guards the language.

I think part of the problem is that white supremacists identified this extreme variant of the "sassy black woman" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... BlackWoman) stereotype before other people did. They did so in an animal metaphor slang. Black people are not amused by comparisons to non human Simians.

You've seen this woman in some World Star Hip Hop video or in fictional TV series as a "ultra loud nonclassy black woman" but describing it always winds up being a string of adjectives.

I first became aware of it because it was being flung at Michelle Obama who is... well.. on a different plane of reality than the hicks and idiots who call her that. She isn't just 180 degrees from this stereotype, she isn't in the same dimension. Racism really warps people...

Which was the point I was trying to make, was that the trailer seemed to indicate this character was the most offensive modern stereotype of black women (OH HELL NAAAAAWW).

I blame Sony...

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Doctor X » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:02 pm

The same Holley was discussing some film with Another White Partner. Said partner complained he did not enjoy the film because "there was this . . . woman talking through the whole thing."

Pause

Holley: Stereotypes exist for a reason. Was she?

Partner: Silence

Holley: Come on! You can say it!

Ha! Ha! White Guy embarrassed--and this partner is whiter than Kirk Cameron. Fine. But consider saying/writing: "I wanted to enjoy the movie but there was this black woman talking through the whole thing!"

Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by corplinx » Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:19 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

The Wayans Brothers should have coined a name for it.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:35 am

So, out of the choices at the multiplex tonight The Boy chose Ghostbusters So that's what I ended up seeing.

It was a mixed bag of a movie. Hard to make a call.

Pros: I really liked all four main characters. All were quirky and had some funny moments. Leslie Jones was nowhere near the stereotype she seemed in the trailers. Someone said here that it was like they put all of her 'sassy black woman stereotype' moments in the trailer and that is accurate My favorite was Holtzmann though. She was hilarious. I loved Holtzman. More than any of the others she would have been right at home on the original team. I think I have a little crush on Holtzman, she's just my type (smart and weird). Though you get a vague impression she plays for the other team (and, IIRC, the director confirmed this). Ah well

Lots of cameos from the orginal. Not just the original ghostbusters but the firehouse, Slimer, the Staypuft marshmallow man. I liked that.

That's the good news. Now the bad.

Cons: The plot. Oh dear god the plot. Dull, dull, dull, dull, dull. This movie can best be described as interesting people in a boring plot that had no real meat to it. Just a bunch off excuses for set pieces. If the plot had been up to the standards of the characters, it really could have been a worthy successor to the original. As it was, it was like it was written by committee and it probably was. Nothing memorable about it.

So between the five stars I would give it for characterization and the one star I would gie it for plot, I will split the difference at 3 stars. Better than I was expecting, but not great.
Spoiler:
Quote Redacted by Section 31

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:40 am

So, in other words:

Image

--J. "They Shoulda Called This Film A Fish Called Julia!" D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:36 pm

Doctor X wrote:So, in other words:

Image

--J. "They Shoulda Called This Film A Fish Called Julia!" D.
One snap up and no Z formation
Spoiler:
Quote Redacted by Section 31

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:52 pm

Oh and if my local movie house is any indication, it's heading for hugel flop status. I saw a 7:30 showing on a Friday, peak time and it was already relegated to a single screen and even that was only a quarter full at best. Not a good sign
Spoiler:
Quote Redacted by Section 31

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by corplinx » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:43 am

[youtube][/youtube]

The wrap up of the flop.

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:27 am

This guy tries really hard to argue, not very convincingly, that it isn't a flop:

http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/ghostb ... op-8622080

Meanwhile sort of a mirror image:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3364142/ghostb ... ox-office/

Either way, a lot of people seem to be emotionally invested in this thing being either a huge commercial success, which is objectively dubious or a gigantic, epic flop. Some dude in the comments said something mildly positive about the film and gets called a desperate feminist and SJW.
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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:34 am

Nope. It was a flop. I went to see it on its second weekend. It was playing to a nearly empty theater on a Friday night. I just came back from watching Star Trek Beyond, also in its second week. Only on a Tuesday and its still playing to a 3/4 full house. And frankly, the proof of the pudding is in the box office. For a film to break even it has to gross 3x its budget, roughly. Last I looked, it hadn't even grossed 1x. That's a flop by any standard. And it won't be shown in China, so there is no way it is hitting that 3x mark. No way.

Though it doesn't surprise me that someone saying something 'vaguely posiitive' gets called a 'desperate SJW', the politics of the film have taken over and made the actual merits and flaws of the film irrelvant to a lot of people
Spoiler:
Quote Redacted by Section 31

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Re: GhostBusters Spoilers and the Sony Protection Scheme

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:48 am

Forget it, Nyarl it's
where I pontificate on political thinking. This is akin to people hating/loving something for what they think it is. Obama may be criticized for his policies, but too many claim that is RACIST! Similarly, he may be lauded for his policies--stop laughing!--and THAT is cast as RACIST in the other direction. Neither has anything to do with what he actually does.

Recall Tinkerbell's incontinence over George the Younger using his not-terribly-hard-earned tax pennies to FUND BLACK KIDS WITH THE AIDS IN AFRICA!!1!!!!1!! Not too many "Bush-Derangementers" know that. They just assume George advocated genocide or something probably involving crayons.

There ARE those who "hate" this movie since it is a blatant "Chick-Flick-Girl Power" film. There are those who "love" it for the same reason. There are those who feel intimidated either way.

Then there are those who saw the film and do not like it. There are some who like it. It seems the former is more numerous.

Frankly, Ripper Street 4 is on . . . aka "Game of Thrones in Whitechapel"

Image
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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