Winter is coming

Drama queens must check their tiaras at the door.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Mon May 20, 2019 3:45 pm


The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Grammatron » Mon May 20, 2019 6:14 pm

I think the ultimate ending is fine, it would have meant more and would have made more sense if there were a few more seasons of the long night; Daeny going mad; Daeny and Jon falling in love; Cersei and Uron building defenses/traps.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Doctor X » Mon May 20, 2019 6:21 pm

Yeah.

Totally not interested in that.

The reason the novels are so interesting despite the chapters on food and Jets butt-hurt is because it marks a moment where things fall apart, get worse, and where is it going to go? The problem with a prequel to that is you know where it is going to go. There is no mystery.

The only way prequels are interesting is if "how we got here" was never really covered. So why Michael Myers went sociopathic as a boy might be interesting . . . if we never had 37 [37?--Ed.] sequels. Though the "How Kirk became KHAAAAAANNNN!!!!" prequels all suffer the same problem: we know that Kirk survives whatever the fuck is trying to eat/fuck/demote him.

So . . . meh.

--J.D.
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Grammatron » Mon May 20, 2019 6:33 pm

I am not sure that's inherently true. Chernobyl is a fantastic show despite knowing that the world didn't, in fact, end. There are plenty of WWII movies and shows that are fantastic despite knowing how the world will end.

One of the problems HBO might have is that people just do not care about that world.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Giz » Mon May 20, 2019 6:37 pm

The problem with prequels is that all to often, they make a seemingly large universe feel smaller, because they ‘have to’ include fan service references or connections to other parts of the franchise.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Doctor X » Mon May 20, 2019 10:04 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 6:33 pm
I am not sure that's inherently true. Chernobyl is a fantastic show despite knowing that the world didn't, in fact, end.
HEY! SPOILERS!!!! :x

Though that is a docudrama, and I agree with:
There are plenty of WWII movies and shows that are fantastic despite knowing how the world will end.
if you can find the wonderfully done Canadian-Japanese Hiroshima from the 90s, it is quite good. A favorite That Guy does Truman, another with scores of others playing his cabinet. The Japanese speak, Heavens to Betsy, Japanese which makes the infamous 黙殺 ["Mokusatsu"--Ed.] incident all that more realistic.

I joke with people when I recommend The Death of Stalin: "Spoiler: Stalin dies!"

However, that is history portrayed. In a way:
One of the problems HBO might have is that people just do not care about that world.
I think that is it. People do not care about, say, the details of Robert's Rebellion or the "Tower of Love" and all of that. People do care about how the Godless Commies screwed up nuculer reactors and the fact the Japanese argued to the very literal bitter end that they could withstand nuculer attacks.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Doctor X » Mon May 20, 2019 10:23 pm

Anyways, here is a good review I read earlier:
Hugh Montgomery

Warning: contains spoilers about the final episode of series 8.

One day, a prestige HBO drama will likely be made out of the momentous fall-out from last week’s penultimate Game of Thrones episode. After fans expressed growing discontent with the show, the decision to have Daenerys torch the whole of King’s Landing and its citizens with dragon fire finally blew the roof off the whole enterprise for many – only for others to fire back that these grumblers were wilful killjoys who should accept what was, in their eyes, a perfectly reasonable plot twist. Since last Sunday, the argument on social media has not let up.

Brad Beats Cersae
the salient quotes from that I will put in:
For what it’s worth, I think the events of last week were ruinous, in more ways than one – and it’s also worth emphasising that most of us who moaned about Daenerys’ wholesale transformation into the Mad Queen never thought of her as ‘good’ or expected her to be an upstanding ruler of the Seven Kingdoms – far from it. It’s just that pushing her into committing unprompted mass genocide seemed both a touch extreme and rather too obvious – a clunking privileging of plot over character. But I accept that there is a point at which one’s grievance also becomes excessive, even as a critic.

Which is why, in reviewing this week’s finale, I have vowed to try and be as even-handed as possible. To swallow my objections, take what has happened as read, and see if the ending can satisfy on the terms the creators have now set out. And, largely, it does – beginning with a remarkable, wordless opening sequence in which Tyrion wanders through the ashen remains of the citadel, surveying the wreckage, and the charred bodies. Saturated in grey, the scene eerily evokes a nuclear holocaust – and it is a terrible and powerful irony, of course, that after eight series of fear around the Night King bringing winter to Westeros, in the end, with ash falling like snow, it is human misdeed that should create that seasonal effect in the hitherto sunny King’s Landing.

It seemed likely that, for all the committed cynicism of the show’s worldview, in the final reckoning it would not allow the instigator of such a cataclysm to go unpunished – and so it proves. In a Nuremberg rally-like address to her armies, our self-righteous tyrant Dany suggests her whiffy ‘liberating’ mission is far from over, while kitted out in a fetching but distinctly fascistic black leather ensemble. Then she gets what’s coming to her.

Amid what remains of the Great Hall, her nephew-cum-lover-cum-dopey-wingman Jon Snow stabs her through the heart, while snogging her and declaring her “my queen now and always”. The scene, thankfully, really lands – fuelled, perhaps, by the sheer torturedness of their predicament, Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke suddenly find a chemistry that has been notably absent between them up to this point. It is a moment only slightly diminished by the clunking absurdity of what follows, when Drogon makes an appearance. Clearly more than peeved at the death of his mum, he nevertheless refrains from flaming her traitorous boyfriend and instead decides to melt the Iron Throne. Which works well to hammer home the show’s central message about the inherent corruption of monarchical rule, but does beg the question: are we expected to believe that dragons have a finely-tuned appreciation of the symbols of autocratic power?

["Snip!"--Ed.]

That leader, not entirely unpredictably, is Bran, the seer Stark who finally has something useful to do after many series of slightly superfluous and obscure visions.

He’s a choice that makes narrative sense, though it has to be said that there is something quite humorous about Tyrion’s justification for picking him being that he has the greatest “story” – given that, for many viewers at least, his storyline has been quite the dreariest. In any case, true to the show’s sense of realpolitik, it’s very much only a contingently happy ending: when Jon asks Tyrion if he did the right thing in killing Daenerys, he simply replies: “ask me again in ten years”.

In fact, though, not one but two new rules are established. Those of us who have found ourselves cheering on an ever-more-emboldened Sansa Stark – one of the few characters with a truly well-constructed character arc – can rejoice in seeing her declare the North independent of the other six kingdoms, and crowned as its queen. In other plot tie-ups, Jon is packed off back to The Night’s Watch, as a way to appease Daenerys’ followers while saving him from a death sentence, while, ever the lone ranger, Arya vows to continue her adventuring by travelling West of Westeros into the great unknown. A final scene cuts between the three of them taking up their new destinies, and provides an efficient, if disappointingly uncontroversial, ending.

I think the complaints about the show over the past couple of series have been mostly justified. It’s easy to sneer at Game of Thrones’ so-called ‘entitled’ fans, as some critics have done, particularly when they sign petitions asking for its final season to be remade – but, at the same time, it seems to me perfectly reasonable to be upset at seeing something you have invested so much time in being debased by pure-and-simple bad writing.

However, it is also true that a sprawling epic like this, with chaos built into its very narrative DNA, was always likely to have faults. In fact, that in-built imperfection seems to be wryly referenced in one of the closing scenes, where George RR Martin proxy Samwell reveals he is in possession of a book detailing the history of everything we have seen over the last eight series. And its title? ‘A Song of Ice and Fire’ – the same one, of course, as for Martin’s series of novels. However when Tyrion asks about how he is portrayed in it, he discovers, humiliatingly, that he doesn’t even get a mention. In the end, similarly, some characters were served better than others by Benioff and Weiss – spare a thought for example, for poor Brienne of Tarth, that one time vanquisher of gender norms whose character, in the end, was sacrificed to a gratuitous romantic plotline.

But, finally, let us remember the good times the show gave us – the shocks it provided, the gasps it induced, the caustic quippery it revelled in (Olenna Tyrell 4 Eva), and the sheer amount of conversation it inspired, something which in itself is proof of its cultural power. And hopefully see you back here in the next year or two, to pore over the affairs of Westeros once more, when the upcoming Games of Thrones prequel series begins.
Unfortunately, what he heralds in his critique are all elements penned by the Butt-hurt Fat Jets Fan and not Dumb 'n Dumber. The fantastic cast carried those elements from Charles Dance all the way to The Kids who could have really ruined it. I have respect for Maise since Arya could have become the Irritating Plucky 'n Sassy Girl whom everyone wants to drop a building on. Same with Sansa whose character was royally screwed . . . er . . . let me rephrase that in absurd fashions, but continued to play the character believable.

The ends were . . . well . . . not justified. The deaths in "The Long Night" were capricious to completely stupid. So the Sheriff of Fortitude--"I AM ALL OF THE SHERIFFS!"--dies yet Jamie and Brienne and Jon Snow who are literally buried by murderous dead . . . all . . . survive?

Moving on to the Sacking of King's Landing, disappointing. I do not blame the actors. Emily of all people, handed the script, "she's mad now. MAD I tell you!" did it well. She even pulls off in the ending the mad belief that she is good while ignoring the harm.

But Cersea and Jamie?

And what was the "point" of the Hound facing the Mountain? It ultimately meant nothing. Maybe that was the point, but if they just wanted the fight, the Hound was smart enough to just behead his brother.

In the rain.

--J.D.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Pyrrho
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Mon May 20, 2019 11:15 pm

Ah well at least
Spoiler:
Tyrion ends up as Hand of the King, which is kinda sorta better than being the King.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Anaxagoras » Mon May 20, 2019 11:45 pm

Looking back on the last two seasons:

Did winter ever actually come? I mean, that was the famous catch phrase from the beginning. But if it did come, it was only for one day it seems.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Giz
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Giz » Mon May 20, 2019 11:56 pm

The thing about the “atrocities “ in the show and how they show daeny as a tyrant is... in a medieval world, they would likely not be considered especially out of line. More, business as usual.

I guess the anachronistic attitudes are common in tv dramas but it does make the seven kingdoms sound like 21st century California (except with a wall)

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Tue May 21, 2019 11:44 am


The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Wed May 22, 2019 10:52 am


The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed May 22, 2019 11:12 am

Giz wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 11:56 pm
The thing about the “atrocities “ in the show and how they show daeny as a tyrant is... in a medieval world, they would likely not be considered especially out of line. More, business as usual.

I guess the anachronistic attitudes are common in tv dramas but it does make the seven kingdoms sound like 21st century California (except with a wall)
Sure. Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun would have approved if not complained that she showed too much mercy.

But she was supposed to be "the breaker of chains" and all that. Oh well. It is, after all, supposed to be a medieval world with pre-modern norms.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Giz
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Giz » Wed May 22, 2019 12:33 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:12 am
Giz wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 11:56 pm
The thing about the “atrocities “ in the show and how they show daeny as a tyrant is... in a medieval world, they would likely not be considered especially out of line. More, business as usual.

I guess the anachronistic attitudes are common in tv dramas but it does make the seven kingdoms sound like 21st century California (except with a wall)
Sure. Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun would have approved if not complained that she showed too much mercy.

But she was supposed to be "the breaker of chains" and all that. Oh well. It is, after all, supposed to be a medieval world with pre-modern norms.
Not just those two but pretty much any medieval person would have been “what is the fuss about” regarding most of it. (Kings landing would have been a bit a bit out of line but nothing worse than Richard the lion heart did)

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed May 22, 2019 2:23 pm

I dunno. There was a lot of backlash to the Sack of Constantinople.

Rather like modern day atrocities, whether one applauded it or abhorred it seemed to depend on where your pre existing loyalties lay
Spoiler:
Quote Redacted by Section 31

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed May 22, 2019 3:33 pm

And "Everybody Wants to Rule the World" fits in pretty well with Game of Thrones, I gotta say.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Wed May 22, 2019 4:54 pm

Dataset for all GoT deaths on GitHub.

https://github.com/washingtonpost/data- ... nes-deaths
The Washington Post has compiled an illustrated database of every single death in Game of Thrones over the course of its eight seasons, including background extras and animals. These numbers only include on-screen deaths.
WaPo infographic:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... f-thrones/
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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Doctor X » Wed May 22, 2019 7:25 pm

Too much free time.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Pyrrho » Thu May 23, 2019 11:06 am

Image
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Winter is coming

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu May 23, 2019 11:47 am

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare