Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

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Nyarlathotep
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:05 am

corplinx wrote:
Nyarlathotep wrote:
corplinx wrote:You can always find idiots on twitter who react predictably to things.

The actual loud pervasive noise the past year has been "DR WHO BETTER NOT BE A CIS WHITE MALE AGAIN"

So now people will think this is capitulation to that nonsense and react according to their role.

Meh.
So they shouldn't have done it because some fans loudly demanded it, even if they thought it was a good idea? Why? Out of spite?

If someone asks for something (even loudly and obnoxiously) and you do it, it's automatically 'capitulation" and shouldn't be done? Therefore if one wants something, one should never, ever let that fact be known?

Not sure how this works
don't ask me to tell you how their minds work

On social media for the past year I've seen the "make the doctor a minority or woman!!!!".

Thus far I've only heard about negative reactions to the casting via people dumpster diving.

The chick from broadchurch is a good pick. Just hope the writing is better than capaldi season 1 and 2.
I suggested on a fan site that we should at least see how she does before dismissing her

The sole response I got was "I hope your white nighting [sic] gets you laid"

this is the mindset out there.
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:25 am

Meh.

If the only reason she was cast was "to make him a woman," it will fail. If they feel she is good for the role and have good stories/scripts then it should be just fine.

--J.D.
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Nyarlathotep
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:46 am

Right.

But apparently one is "white Knighting" by make the rather mild suggestion of waiting and seeing.

That's the way things are these days
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Doctor X » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:32 am

Well, of course, I do not care what fools think on anything.

I am not aware that "Dr. Who" is specifically male. He always has been. There is no rule, I am aware of, that when he "regenerates" he must be a man. Granted, like the transporter, regeneration was an "out" thought up to keep the series going and to avoid the constant butt-hurt from fans. It reminds me of music fans. Being a fan of a prog-rock band, said band could never be "right" if they decided to innovate. If they stuck doing "old stuff"--from the late 60s--they were "old farts" in 1980. If they moved on to other things--sort of the point of progressive rock, one would think--then THEY ARE ABANDONING ROOT SELL OUTZ!

I think Hell is where a performer has to play/do the same act over and over and over and over. Chicago has to play "Saaaaaaturday . . . in the park, I think it was the 4th of July!"; John Cleese has to perform the Silly Walks; Eric Idle has to "Nudge-Nudge-Say-no-More!"; Palin gives Cleese a respite doing the Parrot Sketch; Genesis has to play "In the Cage"--good song but there are others--more seriously, the "Better Than He Sounds" Billy Joel actually has to announce when he will play "Piano Man" to prevent Idiots in the Audience continually screaming for it. Forget trying to "build up to" it.

Granted, inhabitants of Hell have to hear him play "Up-Town Girl," Collins play "Succudio," and Michael Jackson is waiting for Paul to actually die so they can resume "That Girl is Mine."

Connery ran from Bond primarily to avoid that Hell--being one thing. Moore bought into it and that is what he began for the Campy People . . . not . . . that there is anything wrong with that.

Tom Baker is a very good comic actor:

[youtube][/youtube]

as far as I know he is a Nice Guy that does not start kicking fans who mention something he did LONG before this Board existed. Still, I am sure he would not mind being reminded for other roles. Nimoy, infamously, wrote a book about being type-casted--and semi-wishing he stuck with his Mission: Impossible gig every time he wondered if he needed another room filled with Nubile Busty Fangirls.

Whatever. The only relevant problem I perceive is if someone "does something" "to make a stand." Even then, writing that, there are sometimes it works. Making t3h Funn3h Jooke ["Jooke?"--Ed.] on another thread, I revisited Big Trouble in Little China and recall Carpenter trying to make the Chinese actors/characters relevant. Make the heroes Chinese. I think he succeeded.

[His mind wanders whilst imbibing a "new beer!111 BEER!" and watching シゲルイ.--Ed.]

Look: Ghostbusters III suffered because it was clear they had no film other than "girl power." Compare it to the pretty much very good reviews for the new "Wonder Woman." Good Plot + Execution + Giving a Damn = Something Significant I think. Did I mention this beer was aged in bourbon casks?

Where was I . . . oh yeah! Let us pretend they make a female Sherlock and Watson. In and of itself it would suck. But what if the "point" was to consider the roles from a legitimate "woman's perspective?" Heck I can see a lot of possibilities. She would not be "Sherlock" from Conan Doyle's perspective and all of that. Frankly, it is no more objectionable than drying out Iron Man and making him an "action hero"--something Sherlock very, rarely, was.

So if the writers have ideas and want to do something "new" with the character, then that is legitimate. The problem is that will be hard to differentiate from a "I KNOW! LET'S MAKE HER A BABE!!11!"

It will work and she will add to the franchise, or she will become like That Guy with the Afro and That Other Guy who is a Sloan Ranger. Forgotten.

In the . . . wait . . . where was I again?

--J.D.

[P.S. Precipitation.--Ed.]
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:25 am

Nyarlathotep wrote:Really
It wasn't dark and brooding. It was simply stupid
Need a dark and brooding one.

Merely goofy-stupid is nor enough. It must be stupid-stupid-stupid-stupid. 8)
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:22 am

Doctor X wrote:Where was I . . . oh yeah! Let us pretend they make a female Sherlock and Watson. In and of itself it would suck. But what if the "point" was to consider the roles from a legitimate "woman's perspective?" Heck I can see a lot of possibilities. She would not be "Sherlock" from Conan Doyle's perspective and all of that. Frankly, it is no more objectionable than drying out Iron Man and making him an "action hero"--something Sherlock very, rarely, was.
[P.S. Precipitation.--Ed.]
Just to quibble: In the most excellent show Elementary, Watson is played by Lucy Liu. She does a spectacular job.

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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by gnome » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:18 pm

shemp wrote:I don't care if Dr. Who is played by a goat. Never watched it, never will. Cheesy low-budget production, makes Galactica 1980 look good by comparison.
If that's your complaint, you would do well to try out one of the episodes since 2005.

On the other hand, if there was a cheesy, low-budget Dr. Who where the Doctor was a goat, I would probably watch the hell out of it.
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by gnome » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 pm

corplinx wrote:
don't ask me to tell you how their minds work

On social media for the past year I've seen the "make the doctor a minority or woman!!!!".

Thus far I've only heard about negative reactions to the casting via people dumpster diving.

The chick from broadchurch is a good pick. Just hope the writing is better than capaldi season 1 and 2.
If you want to examine the chaff, by my reckoning there's been cries of "they better make the doctor a minority or a woman!!!!" as well as "they better not be all PC and make the doctor a minority or a woman!!!"

I'm not necessarily a logician, but I think that means they're "capitulating" to somebody if they cast the Doctor at all.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by corplinx » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:57 pm

The chick from Broadchurch is sort of a crony hire. They brought in one of the show runners from that show to run the new Doctor.

The ever-offended see things in terms of capitulation or shoehorning.

I see things as I do in a corporate environment. "get ready for a ton of broadchurch actors showing up".

She did a good job on that show though.

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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:23 pm

I think Broadchurch became to Doctor Who what Gargoyles was to Star Trek: The Next Generation; the place where actors from one show moved onto aftet they left the other. Unlike Gargoyles, though Broadchurch is on while the other show is still on as well, so it seems some cross pollination the other direction

Plus there is the old joke about the BBC only having 15 actors and 7 sets, which has some truth to it, so that adds to the inevitability.

"Crony Hires" are kind of an old tradition in show business, as if you pay attention you will see that most directors and producers end up with a stable of actors they repeatedly draw from. People already joke about how Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter always show up in Time Burton films, but think about how many Scorsese films have had De Niro and/or DiCaprio in them. Or Ridley Scott films with Russel Crowe. Not surprising that tradition creeps into TV
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:14 pm

corplinx wrote:The chick from Broadchurch is sort of a crony hire. They brought in one of the show runners from that show to run the new Doctor.

The ever-offended see things in terms of capitulation or shoehorning.

I see things as I do in a corporate environment. "get ready for a ton of broadchurch actors showing up".

She did a good job on that show though.
You realize that by suggesting that there is any possible outcome other than the complete ruination of the show forever from them casting a woman, they would say you are "white knighting" don't you?
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by gnome » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:26 pm

I have no doubt of that.

My current frustration is people jumping to conclusions about each other. I have friends on my feed that should be "allies" so to speak, but are too quick to jump to the conclusion that a differing opinion aligns them completely with another group.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:You realize that by suggesting that there is any possible outcome other than the complete ruination of the show forever from them casting a woman, they would say you are "white knighting" don't you?
Emphasis added. Alt-righters or MRAs, perhaps? :BigGrin3:
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:39 pm

Don't know, but there are plenty of whomever out there, from what I have seen. And whomever they are, there sure are a lot of them
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by corplinx » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:50 pm

You must be trawling for them.

Where are these awful sites you are going to?

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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:04 pm

Like I said when you asked on Facebook, general sci-fi and Doctor Who fansites. It was on a general sci-fi fansite where I got told "hope your white knighting at least gets you laid" (though the guy spelled it "nighting", because that ilk isn't known for mastery of the English language) when I made the suggestion of at least seeing some footage of her before writing her off. Not some MRA/alt-right cesspool. Just an ordinary sci-fi site.
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by gnome » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:12 pm

I think that is cross-pollination from "gamergate", that MRAs infect scifi sites now.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:17 pm

gnome wrote:I think that is cross-pollination from "gamergate", that MRAs infect scifi sites now.
Regardless, I am seeing a ton of that sentiment without "human dumpster diving" as corplinx called it at one point, or looking for it on MRA/alt-right sites. I am seeing it on sites where thy usual topics of conversation are pretty benign, like whether Killjoys is worth watching.
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:19 pm

At least they didn't call you a "cuck" ... yet.

Please report back when they do.
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Re: Epic Butthurt Incoming!!!!

Post by Nyarlathotep » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:At least they didn't call you a "cuck" ... yet.

Please report back when they do.
Not me, but I saw that phrase used a few times at other people.

Haven't gone back to any sci fi site since yesterday. They are tainted by politics now. They are going to be cesspools from now on, most likely. Going to miss talking about shows I like.
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