Motion Smoothing

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Rob Lister
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Motion Smoothing

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:15 pm

Tom Cruise stars in impassioned PSA against motion smoothing

Alongside outspoke motion smoothing critic, Christopher McQuarrie
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/4/1812 ... -mcquarrie

First, let's get past Tom Cruise. Blind squirrel rule applies.

This is otherwise known as the Soap Opera Effect. Others call it liquid diarrhea. A food analogy is whipping your mashed potatoes for too damn long giving them the consistency of peanut butter.

TV's tend to come with this feature enabled by default. Mine did. It took weeks to find the settings that turns it off. Settings because depending on what mode you're in, it will try to turn itself back on.

OTOH, my kids actually like that mode. Either way, I'm not 'impassioned' about it.

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Witness
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Witness » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:49 pm

Relentless putting filters between the world and us.

Reality is a scary place – we need safe spaces.

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:23 pm

"Liquid diarrhea"

Is there any other kind? :notsure:
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Grammatron » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Witness wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:49 pm
Relentless putting filters between the world and us.

Reality is a scary place – we need safe spaces.
I hate motion smoothing too but film grain is a filter in and of itself.

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Witness » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:09 am

Grammatron wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:57 pm
I hate motion smoothing too but film grain is a filter in and of itself.
Indeed, as is already cropping the scene to get it into the picture.

Yet I think there are varying degrees of dishonesty.

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:23 am

I don't know whether it's "dishonesty" so much as what kind of look was the artist going for. They want it to look a certain way, which seems fine to me. That's what art is after all. Look at impressionist paintings or cubists or Van Gogh, or any artist really, whether they are going for something hyper-realist or something more abstract or impressionistic or classical or traditional or the anime style or the ukiyo-e style, or whatever. It's all looking at the world through a certain filter.
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:52 am

It's mentioned it makes it "look like high speed video"... what is that, objectively, and why is it undesirable?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:57 am

I say that because I think I have it turned on and I'm pretty sure I am OK with it.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:25 am

I think they mean high frame rate. Traditionally films had a frame rate of 24 frames/second. I guess we got used to that, so that when your brain is trained to expect that, it looks strange when you see something filmed at a higher frame rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_frame_rate
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:48 am

To me it looks like the television is a window instead of a screen, like I could just reach in.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:02 pm

It's an aesthetic opinion with no one true answer, like "colorizing".

viz. The Third Man colorized would be awful, but Oregon Trail with Ronald Reagan does just fine.

No I don't mean remakes with black people, dammit! :evil:
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Grammatron » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:56 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:23 am
I don't know whether it's "dishonesty" so much as what kind of look was the artist going for. They want it to look a certain way, which seems fine to me. That's what art is after all. Look at impressionist paintings or cubists or Van Gogh, or any artist really, whether they are going for something hyper-realist or something more abstract or impressionistic or classical or traditional or the anime style or the ukiyo-e style, or whatever. It's all looking at the world through a certain filter.
But if you want to go down that road, then these kind of films can only be enjoyed in a movie theater. They were not meant for home TV regardless of filters present or absent.

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:06 pm

And 2001 A Space Odyssey must be seen in Cinerama. :cry:
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Doctor X » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:00 pm

The complaints read like those who are upset color and sound were added to film.

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:06 pm


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Witness
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Witness » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:20 am

↑ The difference seems very slight, at best. Is it more evident on a big screen?

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:27 am

Found something that makes a lot of sense:

TechRadar: The truth behind motion smoothing, and why you might want to leave it on after all
Jon Porter wrote:With a refresh rate of 60Hz, TVs need to work out a way of dividing 24 frames into 60 refreshes, and this leads to problems.

The standard way of dealing with this is to show the first frame twice, the second same thrice, the third frame twice, the fourth frame thrice, and so on. By the time the panel has refreshed 60 times, all 24 frames will have been shown.

But this 2:3 ratio isn’t ideal, and creates a certain amount of judder that’s especially noticeable during panning shots.

In an ideal world we’d all have 120Hz televisions that can neatly show 24 frames per second, but while we’re still predominantly relying on 60Hz screens a certain amount of motion-smoothing is going to be needed.

Too much motion-smoothing creates the soap opera effect, but two little leaves your content juddering as your TV struggles to fit a square peg into a circular hole.

To avoid the worst of both worlds we’d suggest leaving motion-smoothing on, but turning it to its absolute minimum setting.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by Grammatron » Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:08 pm

This is why I have a 120Hz screen

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:46 pm

This actually solves the mystery I'd previously been asking, of why anyone would need 120Hz--it just seemed like there was no way people could tell the difference. I never thought of trying to accommodate varying frame rates.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

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Re: Motion Smoothing

Post by gnome » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:18 am

After several experiments I settled on some motion smoothing but at a relatively low setting. I appreciate the de-juddering 24/60 correction, and in fact a little bit of that high frame rate appearance I've found I enjoy. So my TV usually looks like a window into a diurama.

This is a bit odd when watching old TV, for example old Star Trek episodes. The window looks upon a diurama where the characters are made out of film grain.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2