Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

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corplinx
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Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by corplinx » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:28 pm

I wanted to talk about the need for a "Director's Cut" of Avengers: Endgame.

I saw the film, it was a good but not a great movie.

By great, I mean matching that perfect execution of Spiderman: Spiderverse / Incredibles / etc.


What Happened?

There was a last minute addition to the marvel-verse that when shoehorned into this film, took you out of it.

Without rehashing the debates about Captain Marvel, and it's lack of plot, protagonist, antagonist, climax, or it's other flaws. I think everyone agrees it was a cynical cash grab by Disney that they tried to armor in a female empowerment message. Which is funny, since it wasn't really a female empowerment film. It was a DC film. A bunch of stuff happens, not much of it makes sense, and stuff blows up at the end.

EndGame had been in development forever, and suddenly they had to make room for Cosmic Invincible Mary-Sue(perman).

The First Clue

Tony is drifting in space. Even though they have jump gates and 2 days of fuel. Apparently that wasn't enough to jump home or something. And tony is about to run out of air and die.

Deus Ex Machina is one of those things we "literary types" really hate. It's one of the laziest devices in writing.

Cosmic Mary Sue(perman) shows up... she doesn't have an oxygen tank... and something something somehow she pushes their ship home in less than an hour so Tony doesn't die.

At this point, people around me are looking at each other confused since it made no sense at all, but we're all here to enjoy ourselves and willing to let it go.

Regardless, it took everyone out of the film.

My supposition is that this scene, which is one that keeps End Game from being a better film in the literary sense, was a late developed shoe-horn to justify the previous last minute crash grab movie. It's not about females in movies, its about Disney being whores.


The Missing Arc and Botched Climax

This movie refers to plot and information outside of itself, which if you are familiar with has an emotional impact on you the viewers. 10 years worth of character meta-arcs are finished. Tony, Captain, Thor, Hulk

Infinity War began Rocky IV style, a babyface hero got his ass absolutely kicked. It sent the Hulk into withdrawal it was so shattering to him. Even the Hulk could not resist Thanos if he wielded the Power Stone. The movie audience really wants to see Hulk square off with Thanos without any of his stones. It's an old school film and pro wrestling angle that always works and gets a pop. The heel wins due to the cheating in the first encounter which draws the marks back to see the babyface get his revenge.

In my speculation original version of this movie, The Hulk had become okay with himself and was ready to start a relationship with Natasha. Natasha was too PTSD from the snap though. So Bruce was ready and happy, but Natasha was obsessed with running the Avengers. However, the spark between them was still there. Bruce is now willing but Natasha just can't.

When Bruce finds out Natasha sacrificed herself, it breaks his fucking heart. He hasn't been attached to anything emotionally since the Hulk pushed him away from people for their own good. When he could finally let people in, Thanos had broken Natasha in a way that kept her now from opening to Bruce.

Thor, Iron Man, and Cap fight Thanos. All of them get laid out. Thanos is no joke even without the purple stone. Thanos is a Titan.

Bruce has been tied up trying to rescue War Machine and trash panda.

Either to rescue them, or once he sees Thanos, Bruce does the thing he fears most one last time and let's the Hulk truly out.

The Hulk beats Thanos silly proving that the rage of The Hulk is truly incredible.

Hulk is now complete again as an entity. He has completed his arc by getting his licks on Thanos. Not just to prove he is a titan in his own class, but because the Hulk is out for revenge for Natasha.

Now watch this trick, Thanos has to pull out the purple stone and use it to keep Hulk from straight killing him. He doesn't beat the Hulk, he just gets him off of him. And thus the rest of the plot stays the same.

That's right. The awkward Captain Marvel Thanos fight was originally Hulk's character arc and a major part of the climax.

The audience got robbed since there was no build up or payoff with the Captain Marvel / Thanos fight. When Thanos purple stone thumps her away, it's almost like the Russo Brothers said "let's thump this stupid character right out of the plot, fuck you Disney".

The destruction of a starship was once again that lazy high school level writing device 'Deus Ex Machina'.

I almost wondered if the "go girl" moment during the battle, was a middle finger to Disney. "We have all these wonder female characters in the Marvel Universe, and this story hinges on one of them sacrificing her life for the greater good, but you made us shoehorn in an uninteresting Mary Sue(perman) that created a bunch of plot holes. "


Other Implications

If Captain Marvel is removed from the film:
It makes sense that she didnt take the stones and keep tony alive with their power. (dick move) She's the only person in the group capable of using multiple stones

Captain Marvel could made another magic pager using her magic powers of making small consumer electronics and she could done Bruce's snap. After all, the opening scene established she had instant transmission or something. Or something. What a crock of shit.

The Missing Origin Story

Avengers End Game is also the Origin Story for Several Heroes Now

SpiderMan: that's right, SpiderMan has no origin in this MCU. This was his. Tony threatens the fabric of the universe to bring back the son he never had, and loses the life he always wanted, just so Peter can have his. This is greater than the Uncle Ben moment. Peter will now try to be man and hero that would make Mr. Stark proud. It's probably the most elaborately setup and emotionally powerful origin story we've had on screen.

The New Captain America: Nuff said. Simple and effective. Some people don't need revenge or a desire to please to motivate them, sometimes just the idea that they are worthy to have the torch passed to them means everything. Bucky had too much history to take the shield, but the Falcon doesn't. What Falcon has shown is that he values doing the right thing over obeying the rules. Falcon flies headlong into battles against the odds despite just having some mechanical wings. He embodies many of the values that make Cap, Cap.

re:origin: Thor. The arrogant Asgardian is completely gone. Thor has let go finally. The Thor of Ragnarok obviously inspired this transition. (and don't forget the second Loki somewhere out).

The Hulk: The current MCU hulk didn't haven an original story (like SpiderMan), they just silently soft rebooted the character since everyone knows who these icons are. But no more Mr Happy selfies BannerHulk. Bruce is sad in a way that happiness can't be faked around. Him and the Hulk are back to being different people. He doesn't want to be recognized anymore. Maybe he even walks down a road with his backpack on hitchhiking, a sad look on his face. Maybe a light piano score underlines his sadness. Not all endings are happy. Life is bittersweet, and unlike Star Wars, Black Widow is really gone. No backsies. Bruce is still pining for the one soul in the universe that can't be brought back.

My hypothesis in a Nutshell:
This was a 7/10 movie that could have been 9/10 if Disney hadn't tried to make one last blockbuster right before it. I think the Russo Brothers were hamstrung by Disney into making a "summer movie" versus the "film" they wanted. I'd like to see that film.


Fuck Disney.

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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 4:29 pm

My thoughts on the movie were that it literally got better as it went on.

The first act I was thinking "Jesus fuck. The whole movie isn't going to be like this, is it? This is like The Star Wars prequels on Xanax"

By the second act I was more like "Okay, this is much better. I am intrigued"

By the third act and the big battle at the end..."OH MY GOD THIS IS THE BEST FUCKING MOVIE EVER"

I would probably give it a 7/10 too, but not because of the politics of the film, just averaging the 3/10 I would give the beginning and the 10/10 I would give the end.
Spoiler:
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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:28 pm

Also, since we are clearly marked for spoilers...

Image
Spoiler:
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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by corplinx » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:40 pm

I wonder if there was a better "Tony and Nebula" adrift sequence that mirrors Tony's origin story.

Iron Man 1 has Tony gravely injured in a cave and he has to through his own ingenuity engineer his way out of it.

EndGame begins with Tony gravely ingured with grim prospects.

Nebula, only sees her sister as an actual person still.

The montage is perhaps longer, but Tony eventually engineers a solution. Except this time, Tony returns to earth bitter and done with it all. Emaciated and angry.

Nebula however now sees a human (Tony) as a something more than fodder. This is part of her arc as well.

So when Tony sacrifices it all, it means so much more to her. She sees humanity as something worth protecting. Except this didn't happen and instead Space Jesus magically rescued them.

I wonder if we were short-changed here on Nebula?

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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:53 pm

My biggest complaint with that scene was that it seemed so unnecessary to the plot as a whole. It seemed like the whole purpose was so that they could feature it in the trailer. It isn't as if that was a cliffhanger left over from the last film. It contributed to that dragginess I mentioned earlier because it meant we went through 10-15 minutes of that before the real plot started.

Even if they just wanted it as a way to bring in Captain Marvel, it was unnecessary. The mere fact that they mentioned about Earth being "ground zero" for the "wave of energy" created by Thanos' snap would have been a perfectly valid reason for her to come back to Earth in time for the opening scene of the movie.
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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by corplinx » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:07 pm

Agreed.

Tony could have shown up in the Guardians ship at Avengers HQ emaciated and unable to stand.

"Tony, where have you been?"

"It's a long story, and i had to make friends with the ice cyborg, but i'm here, and im done with this"

Part of that clunky opening is the whole:

"we've been looking for thanos everywhere"
"but it turns out he snapped two ago so there's that"

I think that is part of the Captain Marvel re-jiggering of the movie. Suddenly they just had to make things work.

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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Nyarlathotep » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:20 pm

Another observation

During the climactic battle there is a scene where Hawkeye/Ronin was running with the infinity gauntlet, trying to get it to the time machine. He stumbles and Black Panther says “Let me take that” or something along those lines.

Was it just me or was there kind of a “Let a REAL superhero take it from here” kind of vibe to that line?
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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by corplinx » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:24 pm

Hawkeye is aware he's a guy with a bow.

The Avengers were about teamwork after all.

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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Witness » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:25 am

Image

:twisted:

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Re: Avenger EndGame: How to Fix It (spoilers)

Post by Nyarlathotep » Thu May 02, 2019 5:29 am

Just realized that The Avengers and The Good Place must occupy the same universe. They have the same timeline anyway...

Spoiler:
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