OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Drama queens must check their tiaras at the door.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

One thing that I'm trying not to perpetrate here is any flavor of the No True SocialistTM fallacy.

And after all it was in the name of his party. On the other hand they lied a lot and it could've been a bait and switch.

At any rate here is the best possible argument that Hitler was not a socialist. Non-stupid and worthy of discussion.

Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 26484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Can't watch right now, but I think you have to ignore names as completely irrelevant. I.e., the fact that "socialism" was literally in the name of the party is irrelevant because the word "Democratic" is also part of the official name of countries like North Korea or East Germany. There are also "Republics" that are in fact nothing of the sort.

Also, how do we define "socialism". I think we need to figure out what the word really means first. All countries, even :freedom:, probably have at least a little bit of it after all, depending on how you define it.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Watch it first and you'll see there is some substance to this.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 37392
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Not gay

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by ed »

His platform was pretty socialist. He was for the working man, he railed against big business and the international ... you know.
Government did not own means of production but that is unnecessary to be "socialist", you can accomplish the same thing with rules and laws.

It would be a better and less fraught question if you began by giving the definition of "socialist" that you wish to use.
About that stereo

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 26484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Everyone claims to be "for the working man" though.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Nyarlathotep
Posts: 49191
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Nyarlathotep »

The "Nazis were t3h REEL Left tits" argument is never made in good faith anyway.

It's a political version of "No U!" Thus, not worth refuting

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Any of you watch the video?

Did you catch the part where Hitler privately told the Junkers (it came out later) he would not really be socialist?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 26484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Haven't had time yet. Maybe this weekend.

I really don't care all that much because it's a semantic game played by political partisans to associate the other side with Hitler and the Nazis.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

The video isn't a polemic about Hitler not being a socialist, it really gives the historical background about why he called himself one.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 37392
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Not gay

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by ed »

Thats like calling yourself a woman. Feel free but there are certain immutable characteristics that really make the definition.

Socialism is the government ownership of the means of production. Did he advocate that?

As I've pointed out, government does not have to "own" to have the same level of control as if they did "own". I suspect that that was in fact the case in Nazi Germany.
About that stereo

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Didja watch the video? :)
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 37392
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Not gay

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by ed »

I am not sighted and your assumption that I am is triggering. And exclusionary.

You are a racist.
About that stereo

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 26484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Anaxagoras »

Stop being a snowflake and a pussy ed.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

C'mon folks.

Watch the video and stop just responding to the title. :hissyfit:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 37392
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Not gay

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by ed »

download (19).jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
About that stereo

User avatar
Anaxagoras
Posts: 26484
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Anaxagoras »

OK I watched enough of it to figure out that he said it wasn't socialism. It's more like rule by mafia. A kleptocracy.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Nyarlathotep
Posts: 49191
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Nyarlathotep »

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:12 pm
C'mon folks.

Watch the video and stop just responding to the title. :hissyfit:
I have not desire to watch "Nazis called themselves socialists therefore anyone to the left of David Duke is a Nazi" propaganda. I will leave that to Wildcat

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 81044
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: OK then, Was Hitler really a socialist or what?

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:51 am
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:12 pm
C'mon folks.

Watch the video and stop just responding to the title. :hissyfit:
I have not desire to watch "Nazis called themselves socialists therefore anyone to the left of David Duke is a Nazi" propaganda. I will leave that to Wildcat
Absolutely not what it is.

Indy Neidel is a real historian and he has a whole channel tracing that era. This is one along the way that he made.

Considering some of his other subject matter, I'm thinking he's a bit of a leftist himself.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.