Important Historical Untruths

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Anaxagoras
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Important Historical Untruths

Post by Anaxagoras »

This is just me doing some navel-gazing.

I've been thinking a bit about human history, and I think that a lot of important stuff that happens is driven by ideas that are just plain not true in the sense of the objective reality. As SkepticsTM, we like to concern ourselves with finding out what it the objective reality, but as far as what actually drives human events, what really matters isn't what is objectively true, but what people believe is true.

Did Marie Antoinette actually say "Let them eat cake?" I don't think that any serious scholar that has looked into the matter believes that she really said that. But most people have heard that somewhere. I don't remember when or how I first heard about it, but I'm pretty sure that I learned it as a "fact" at first, even though it isn't. Did that sort of thing help her end up at the guillotine? Was the French Revolution driven by stuff like that? I don't know. :notsure:

Not to mention the more obvious stuff, like religious beliefs. How many wars have been fought over competing mythologies, none of which are actually true in any objective sense?

World Wars I and II? A lot of wrong beliefs led to those. Is it a mistake to think that objective reality really matters? :notsure:
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by robinson »

When it comes to human affairs, belief frequently is more important than facts
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

The way I heard it, she said brioche not something that translates as "cake".
Later I heard she never said it at all.

The underlying issue was that the cheapest bread was price controlled and the bakers didn't bother because it was a money loser.
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Giz »

“ I've been thinking a bit about human history, and I think that a lot of important stuff that happens is driven by ideas that are just plain not true in the sense of the objective reality.”

Like Orange man is incipient fascist, and colluded with Russia?
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by ed »

Like JFK approached sainthood.
About that stereo
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Giz »

Like Gorbachev should get the credit for ending the Cold War, rather than Reagan?
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Giz wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:06 pm Like Gorbachev should get the credit for ending the Cold War, rather than Reagan?
Or either of those guys and not Lech Walesa. :wink:
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Giz »

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:20 pm
Giz wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:06 pm Like Gorbachev should get the credit for ending the Cold War, rather than Reagan?
Or either of those guys and not Lech Walesa. :wink:
Are you mansplaining away Margaret Thatcher?
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Giz wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:42 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:20 pm
Giz wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:06 pm Like Gorbachev should get the credit for ending the Cold War, rather than Reagan?
Or either of those guys and not Lech Walesa. :wink:
Are you mansplaining away Margaret Thatcher?
:HoppingMad:
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

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Or the Civil War was about State's Rights?

Or Junior "died for our sins?"







Too soon?

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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Giz »

Who won the Tet offensive?
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Abdul Alhazred »

Giz wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:39 pm Who won the Tet offensive?
Walter Cronkite.
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Anaxagoras »

Our side won the Tet offensive in the the North Vietnamese didn't achieve their military objectives.
But ultimately it was at least a sort of propaganda victory for them in that more Americans turned against the war.
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by robinson »

Yep

Because the government had been assuring everyone the war was almost won
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Re: Important Historical Untruths

Post by Doctor X »

Giz wrote: Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:39 pm Who won the Tet offensive?
The answer to any such question is "Not the French."

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Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
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"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
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"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
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Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

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