Deflategate

Never agree to 3 points on top of the vig.
User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 20811
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:26 pm

Will Goodell try to step in and set Geno Smith's jaw?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13416 ... broken-jaw

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:33 pm

As I suggested, he will fine the Patriots $1 million and another draft pick. . . .

Meanwhile, the judge slapped the NFL around the head and shoulders on a number of major points. What does that mean?

Means MOAR POPCORNS!!!!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:26 pm

Did I read this morning that the NFL changed the conditions of a settlement by demanding that Brady accept the conclusions of the Wells report? Nice try.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:11 am

Exactly.

Every lawyer I have heard laughed and noted, "he would be confessing to perjury!" Leave aside that the Wells Report has been debunked and destroyed, and Goodell and the NFL have been moving the goal posts faster than a bunch of . . . of . . . goal post moving people things, Brady testified under oath that, in effect, the Well Report is wrong.

The NFL is desperate to get a confession. Anything less than that and this becomes confirmed as the colossal waste of time and money this witch-hunt is. The tone of the judge suggests that he is not at all amused with this extremist position.

This is also despite the fact that the judge accepts the balls were tampered with. However:
Berman: "Turns out Mr. Brady did better with higher inflated balls than underinflated balls. You might say he got no competitive advantage" Stephen Brown (@PPVSRB) August 12, 2015
Some more gems from the Now Most Popular Court Reporter Stephen Brown:
Berman: "I don’t know what to make of that finding Tom Brady was 'at least generally aware of the activities of'
Mcnally, Jastremski."

“Somebody deflated the balls, but it didn’t help Mr. Brady. Does that matter?”

From legal perspective: “You have to show that conspirators intended to be in the conspiracy…Is there a meeting?”

“I’m not sure where the ‘gate’ (in #DeflateGate) comes from. The Wells Report and the award relates only to one game.”

“What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it.”
The irony of all of this is the NFL rushed to court to confirm its ruling--a rare thing--so as to avoid Minnesota and Infamous Judge Dowdy. In fact, tomorrow Goodell has to appear at a contempt-of-court hearing before said judge. The NFL rushed to file in New York to get a more "business friendly" court. According to a few lawyers, Judge Berman is going much farther to examine the evidences--thanks--the NFL pretends to have than even Judge Dowdy would. More than one Talking Legal Head has warned these hearing tend to confine themselves to "proper procedure" per collective bargaining agreements and Law of the Shop. The NFL's entire case has been reduced to "Goodell can decide whatever he wants because CBA!" The questions of guilt, innocence, and all of that was predicted not to be a part of this. Judge Berman is embodying the maxim, "don't try to tell a judge what he can and cannot do."

Unless you are a higher judge.

However, one can also argue that Judge Berman considers the ruling by Goodell based on no evidences--thanks--means the investigation process and the subsequent appeal were all invalid. Interesting.

Finally, more than one Talking Head has noted that Judge Berman has asked questions everyone has wanted to ask the NFL which Goodell et al have basically ignored.

Apparently, next week, Judge Berman may call Goodell and Brady to testify. :hyper:

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:14 am

Image
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:05 am

MOAR FROM [Stop it!--Ed.] Sports attorney/law professor/SI legal analyst Michael McCann:
Alan Milstein, who's litigated against NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told me: “Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

McCannSportsLawTwitterThingy
Responding to question:
Based mainly off today, though also from his experience with the judge. I wrote about it in my article: http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/08/12/deflat ... l-patriots
And here is the article:
Legal takeaways from Brady-Goodell Deflategate federal court hearing

1. Judge Berman seemed very skeptical of the NFL’s core allegation that Brady participated in an alleged ball deflation scheme.

The legal question in Brady’s case is not whether Brady “did it.” It’s whether the NFL lawfully applied Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement in investigating and punishing Brady. Yet on Wednesday Judge Berman appeared unexpectedly interested in whether, in fact, Brady “did it.”

Most tellingly, Judge Berman pressed Nash, the NFL’s attorney, for reference to actual evidence that Brady participated in a ball deflation scheme. Judge Berman also signaled skepticism in the NFL’s factual case by highlighting that Brady played better with over-inflated footballs than with under-inflated ones. In response to this line of questioning, Nash conceded that no direct evidence of Brady’s involvement in a ball deflation scheme or conspiracy exists. He further granted that the NFL possesses no texts or other forms of evidence that directly prove Brady’s involvement.
. . . .
Judge Berman’s noticeable skepticism of the NFL’s alleged facts is clearly an encouraging sign for the Brady camp. Attorney Alan Milstein, who has litigated against the NFL and tried cases before Judge Berman, told SI.com Wednesday night: “After what we heard today, I think Judge Berman will absolutely vacate Brady's suspension.”

2. Jeffrey Kessler admitted that one version of Deflategate could have occurred.

It’s worth remembering that Kessler’s role is not to disprove the NFL’s allegation . . . [it is--Ed.] Kessler’s job is to disprove that Brady had any involvement with a scheme. Kessler—undoubtedly with his clients, the NFLPA and Brady, in mind—stressed that even if McNally and Jastremski undertook a ball deflation scheme, they would not have done so under Brady’s direction. Further, Kessler stressed, no evidence shows any involvement by Brady. Reading between the lines, Kessler seemed to allow for the possibility that McNally and Jastremski might have overzealously tried to implement Brady’s instruction that the footballs be closer to 12.5 than 13.5 PSI. If that scenario took place, Brady would not be at fault. But McNally and Jastremski would be. Should that happen expect Frick and Frack to get their own attorneys geared to sue for defamation/wrongful termination/et cetera.

3. Daniel Nash reminded Judge Berman that he should defer to Goodell.

It may seem odd to hear an attorney tell a judge, in so many words, that the judge must accept the attorney’s position, but NFL attorney Nash adopted such an approach today.
. . . .
Nash raised these arguments after likely sensing Judge Berman’s skepticism about the NFL’s facts. Judge Berman may have also given Nash reason to worry when he questioned—as many have—what the Wells Report meant by Brady being “generally aware” of a ball deflation scheme. From Nash’s perspective, however, these worries are irrelevant. Goodell, as Nash asserted, was granted almost unlimited authority by the NFLPA to exercise judgment in player conduct matters.

4. NFL might regret its preemptive lawsuit in New York.

Hey! I posted that first! [He spells "Doty" correctly.--Ed.] Both the NFLPA and NFL clearly engaged in “forum shopping” when they sought federal court intervention on Goodell upholding Brady’s four-game suspension.
. . . .
. . . the NFL’s first filing may have backfired. First, Judge Doty was not assigned the case. Instead it was assigned to U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle. Second, early indications suggest that Judge Berman is far from an ideal judge for the NFL. Last week Judge Berman ordered the release of Brady’s transcript in spite of the NFL’s request that it be kept confidential, and today he expressed significant doubt in the factual narrative offered by the league.

5. Jeffrey Kessler may have opened the door for a settlement—and the NFL might be wise to walk through it.

As I wrote in an SI.com article published on Tuesday, both Brady and the NFL have many reasons not to settle. Judge Berman, however, seems adamant that the two sides find common ground. The parties seem to understand the message. In response to Judge Berman’s implicit critique of Brady not sharing all electronic evidence with attorney Ted Wells, Kessler acknowledged that Brady could have acted differently. Keep in mind, Kessler is not known for making acknowledgments that raise questions about his clients. Kessler’s willingness to do so today was likely with at least two strategic goals in mind.

For one, Kessler’s concession makes him appear reasonable, which likely plays well with Judge Berman.
. . . .
Second, Kessler may be signaling to the NFL that if the league offers a settlement where Brady would receive a reduced punishment, Brady might be willing to admit that he could have been more cooperative. This admission would be far different from Brady accepting the conclusions of the Wells Report.
. . . .
Judge Berman’s focus on the absence of direct evidence implicating Brady likely came as both a surprise and disappointment to the NFL. The NFL believes that if Judge Berman focuses on process, the league should win the case. Whether that assertion is true is debatable—the NFLPA has offered a number of persuasive arguments that the NFL’s application of the CBA to Brady was flawed—but clearly the NFL is on stronger legal footing if Judge Berman focuses on process rather than facts. For that reason, Judge Berman asking multiple questions to Nash about the NFL’s evidence linking Brady to an alleged ball deflation scheme was not a favorable development for the league. While it’s possible that Judge Berman could rule for the NFL even if he doesn’t believe Brady partook in an alleged ball deflation scheme, he might reluctant to do so.

Sports Illustrated Deflategate Federal Hearing
Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:55 am

Image
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Evolver
Posts: 12804
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:59 pm
Location: The Idiocracy

Re: Deflategate

Post by Evolver » Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:27 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Will Goodell try to step in and set Geno Smith's jaw?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13416 ... broken-jaw
Goodell has added four more games to Brady' punishment, because Tom was "generally aware of Geno Smith".
2016 & 2018 NFL "Sorry To Make You Cry" Challenge Champion

"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there would be no religious people." - Dr. Gregory House

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:30 pm

WHY HASN'T BRADY DENIED INVOLVEMENT IN GENO SMITH Evolver?!!!!11!!!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 34475
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: Deflategate

Post by Grammatron » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:28 pm

Image

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:23 am

“The NFL’s seismic shifts are nothing short of breathtaking,” reads the introduction, which opens the 19-page document. “Having publicly touted the ‘independence’ of the Wells Report and Paul Weiss as the linchpin of the purported fairness of the discipline, the ‘independent’ Report has now been relegated to ‘thorough,’ the ‘independent’ law firm has been relegated to ‘experienced and highly respected professionals,’ and the whole facade of ‘independence’ has been relabeled ‘irrelevant.

“Further, try as it might, the NFL cannot wish away the testimony of Wells stating, e.g., ‘I want to be clear — I did not tell Mr. Brady at any time that he would be subject to punishment for not giving — not turning over the documents'; ‘the analysis of [the halftime] data is ultimately dependent on assumptions and information that is uncertain'; and that he merely found Brady to be ‘generally aware’ of others’ misconduct — not that Brady ‘directed’ it.”

Kessler goes on to argue four main points:

1. The award violates the law of shop, as testified to by Goodell, that the NFL is “required to give proper notification” of player discipline. This is the longest of the four arguments, but one of the main point it seems to hit on is the fact that Goodell was wildly off-base when it came to previously held standards of discipline as they relate to equipment violations.

“This willful disregard of the Player Policies is all the more astounding because they are right on point. According to the Award, ‘[h]ere we have a player’s uncoerced participation in a scheme to violate a competitive rule that goes to the integrity of the game,” writes Kessler. “The Player Policies, meanwhile, apply to ‘equipment violations’ that ‘affect the integrity of the competition and can give a team an unfair advantage.’ They specifically provide that ‘First offenses will result in fines,’ at the collectively bargained amount of $5,512 or $8,268. Goodell’s disregard for the Player Policies is a clear essence-of-the-agreement violation.

2. The award defies the undisputed essence of the CBA, which requires fair and consistent discipline. This section also hammers at the idea of the Wells Report as an independent document.

The NFL is right to abandon this false pretense of independence — the hearing revealed, among other things, that Paul, Weiss (i) acted as the NFL’s counsel in an attorney-client relationship with the duty to zealously defend its client, (ii) was hired to defend Brady’s discipline at the arbitration, and (iii) offered the NFL’s General Counsel the chance to comment on the draft Wells Report. Having now abandoned the pretense of independence, the NFL can no longer use it to try to justify the discipline as ‘fair and consistent,’ as required by the essence of the CBA.

3. The proceedings were fundamentally unfair. There are a handful of facets at play in this section, but it in the words of Kessler, it boils down to fairness for his client, noting the role NFL official Jeff Pash has had in the whole affair.

The NFL continues to claim that, despite Pash’s ‘co-lead investigator’ title, he had ‘no substantive role in the investigation,’ so that depriving Brady of Pash’s testimony was not unfair. But the NFL does not deny that Pash edited the Wells Report, or that Wells testified he did not know what edits Pash made.

4. Goodell was an evidential partial arbitrator. Kessler blasts Goodell for his alleged impartiality, and hints at the fact that the league may have been hoping to keep Brady’s appeal transcript a secret.

Although no more than objective partiality is required to disqualify Goodell, the Award in fact evidences his actual bias. It is more smear campaign than reasoned decision — a propaganda piece written for public consumption, at a time when the NFL believed the transcript would be sealed from public view, to validate a multi-million-dollar ‘independent’ investigation.

Kessler Rips Goodell
Image

Our Man Michael McCann opines, first summarizing the two filings:
In a seething memorandum filed to U.S. District Judge Richard Berman Friday night, attorneys for Brady ridiculed Goodell as incompetent and dishonest. They also expanded earlier arguments that the NFL’s procedure for reviewing Brady’s alleged involvement in a purported ball deflation scheme in the 2015 AFC Championship Game between the New England Patriots and the Indianapolis Colts violated federal law.

In a later filing Friday night, the NFL responded by asserting that questions about evidence concerning Brady’s alleged involvement are completely irrelevant under the law. The league also insists that Goodell enjoyed ample facts to conclude that Brady—whom Goodell only a week ago called “a great young man”—had “personal involvement in a tampering scheme.”
to be honest, I did not bother quoting the NFL's shorter response since, frankly, it is pathetic. It does not rebut the questions asked by the judge. It basically claims Goodell can do what he did because of the CBA and "we really think that" Brady is guilty. To be fair, the NFL cites issues that are suspicious--"Deflator"--for example. Unfortunately for the NFL, such are irrelevant. For example: the NFL claims Brady was not cooperative which becomes evidences--thanks--that he is part of a conspiracy. This is despite the Well Report claiming Brady was cooperative, that Well stated he did not want his phone, et cetera. Moving on:
1. This was personal

While all of Brady’s legal filings to date have been critical of Goodell, the one filed on Friday appears uniquely aimed at Goodell. Its tone is especially harsh and its rhetoric is most unforgiving.
. . . .
To advance this dismissive characterization of Goodell, Brady (through NFLPA attorneys) takes direct aim at Goodell’s assertion that Brady “destroyed” his phone. Brady highlights that Goodell “never acknowledged that Brady had turned over all of his emails and all of his phone bills.” Brady, in other words, hopes that Judge Berman—as well as Goodell’s bosses, the 32 NFL owners, and thousands of NFL players and millions of fans—view Goodell as simply not believable.If Judge Berman concludes that Goodell lied in his arbitration award (the memorandum upholding Brady’s suspension), the judge would be more likely to vacate it. That point is critical. The "Anti"-Brady side--some of them Boston Sports Dudes, actually, none of them lawyers, have stressed that the judge "can only"--their terms--rule on the procedure. This is not true. To begin, since the NFL filed to uphold its decision, the facts underlying its decision certainly come into play. Further, if the NFLPA/Brady show that the facts are manifestly crap, the process becomes unfair.

2. No matter what happens from here, Brady’s filing on Friday was damaging to Goodell

Even if Judge Berman ultimately sides with the NFL, the harm inflicted upon Goodell’s reputation from Deflategate has been severe and perhaps irreversible. Perhaps. He still has a majority of owners who have each been paid 4 times the cost of litigation for just this year. Owners who are rather jealous. "It wasn't suppose to be this way." Salary cap was suppose to prevent Dallas and 49rs dynasties. Frankly, I think what damaged Goodell's reputation was Ray Rice. Goodell claims he never saw the video. Irrelevant: others have upheld he knew what happened in the elevator--Rice even confessed it. But if he wishes to claim "Brady MUSTA known"--assuming a conspiracy--how could he "NOT-A" known about the video or what happened in the elevator?

When Rice confessed it to him?

Was Goodell asleep in his meeting?

Perhaps his bungling of Deflategate will be "one more straw," so to write, to be added to his gross incompetence with Ray Rice. Back to The Man:


3. Judge Berman’s unexpected interest in the facts is a focal point in both sides’ briefs

. . . Judge Berman surprised most observers by demonstrating significant curiosity in the underlying evidence relating to Brady and slightly under-inflated footballs. The main reason for this surprise is that Judge Berman’s role is to review an arbitration award, not to conduct a trial. In such a review, judges are expected to accord high deference to the arbitrator’s findings of facts. Moreover, should he issue an order vacating or upholding Brady’s suspension, Judge Berman would base his decision primarily on how the NFL applied Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement—not on whether Brady “did it.”
. . . .
In its filing Friday night, the NFL indirectly reminded Judge Berman that his interest in the facts could be misplaced. Judges love that. Most notably, the league asserted that Goodell’s factual conclusions about Brady “may not be disturbed” under federal law.
. . . .
Brady’s legal team clearly anticipated the NFL raising the issue of deference for Goodell’s fact-finding. In Brady’s brief, his attorneys tell Judge Berman that, “the point here is not that the Court needs to decide any disputes issues of fact.” Instead, Brady’s team explains, Judge Berman should conclude that, “the Award itself [Goodell upholding Brady’s suspension] evidences a clearly biased agenda—not an effort at fairness and consistency.” Still, Brady’s team used its brief to remind the judge of negative facts for the NFL. This was especially evident when Brady’s side bolded a quote from Wells in which Wells admitted that analysis of halftime PSI measurements was based on “uncertain” information.

4. Brady team hammers home argument that rationale for his punishment has changed

One of Brady’s core arguments centered on unlawful process is that the NFL’s rationale for punishing Brady has changed without notice or explanation. Basically, Goodell moves from the very wishy-washy "more probable than not" to "certitude."

5. Will witnesses testify in court next Wednesday?

In yet another surprising twist, ESPN’s Sal Paolantonio reported on Friday that the NFL and NFLPA might call witnesses to testify before Judge Berman next Wednesday. If this proves true, it would constitute a highly irregular development in a federal court review of an arbitration award. . . . Since neither Goodell nor Brady are required, these are not the witnesses. Both already met with Judge Berman privately. The big question is if Frick and Frack could testify. Here is the Important Point: IF Frick and Frack were part of a conspiracy, and IF Brady knew it . . . well, first Wells did interview them and did not include their testimony in the report. One assumes they did not say, "YES! WE DID IT! BRADY KNEW! JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL!!!1!!" since that would be in the fucking report.

But under oath?

IF the naysayers are correct Brady becomes the Dumbest Dude in SportsDom in thinking they would lie for him under oath. I do not think that is the case, but . . . stay tuned! :hyper:

McCann is more of the opinion that Wells could be called to testify:


Wells, however, could invoke the attorney-client privilege if called to testify before Judge Berman, just as he did during Brady’s hearing before Goodell on June 23, 2015. To be sure, Wells invoking the attorney-client privilege before Judge Berman would further undermine the NFL’s earlier characterization that Wells conducted an “independent” investigation. NFL attorneys, however, now insist that because Article 46 does not obligate the NFL to provide an accused player with an independent investigation, Wells’ independence is irrelevant under the law. As I explained last week, Judge Berman might reject such an argument under a collateral estoppel rationale.

McCann is the Man Who Stilled the Waters!
"Collateral Estoppel Rationale!"

Your argument is invalid!

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Aug 15, 2015 4:18 pm

[youtube]l0DQOufpjKs[/youtube]
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Rob Lister
Posts: 20811
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:07 pm

This is the best preseason game ever.

User avatar
Paulie Cicero
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:52 am
Title: Legitimate Businessman

Re: Deflategate

Post by Paulie Cicero » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:16 pm

Where the fuck is Morrie? I gotta get the vig on this.

User avatar
Tommy D
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:03 am
Title: Real Funny Guy

Re: Deflategate

Post by Tommy D » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:45 pm

Morrie? I thought he'd never fucking shut up!
What's really funny is . . . the fucking bank job away in Secaucus . . . I'm in the middle of the fucking weeds!

User avatar
Morrie
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:15 pm
Title: Hair Specialist
Location: "Probably with One of His Girls . . . Who Gives a Fuck?"

Re: Deflategate

Post by Morrie » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:59 pm

Who loves you more than me?!
Fuck 'em in the ear! Fuck 'em in the other ear!

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:25 pm

Federal judge Richard Berman grilled NFL lawyers with probing questions about the evidences--Thanks they used to suspend Patriots quarterback Tom Brady in a hearing today that seemed to go Brady's way.

Conducting his second public hearing in adjudicating the months-long Deflategate ordeal,Berman asked lawyers for the league why investigator Ted Wells did not specifically say that Brady was aware of the deflating of footballs at the AFC title game in his report that the league used as the basis for the four-game ban.

Wells concluded it was “more probable than not” that Brady was “at least generally aware” of the deflating of footballs. The NFL has maintained that the footballs were deflated before the Patriots’ 45-7 win over the Colts in the conference championship game.

The NFL argued to Berman that one could infer that Wells was referring to the AFC title game, but the judge wasn't convinced.

Berman said if settlement talks in the case continue to be fruitless, he wants Brady and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in his court on Aug. 31. Berman indicated that his "current plan" is to try and have this case resolved before the start of the NFL season. Brady’s suspension would begin on Sept. 4 as of now.

Berman was perplexed as to why Goodell, who authorized the discipline and also served as the appeals officer,did not allow the NFLPA to call NFL attorney Jeffrey Pash as a witness during arbitration. Pash was a co-author of the Wells Report but is also one of the NFL's lead attorneys. According to "gentleman skilled in this work," this is significant.

NFL attorney Daniel Nash said it was in Goodell’s discretion not to allow Pash to testify and the NFLPA could have challenged that, but didn't.

Judge Berman countered that "there are sone[Sic--Ed.]basic procedures for fairness" that need to be followed, in referring to Goodell’s decision on Pash.
Berman also wanted clarification on how the four-game suspension was decided on. Would it have still been four games had Brady cooperated fully?

The NFL said Goodell didn't specify on how the penalties were assessed, but that's within his discretion.

The NFLPA again pressed its main points to Berman for vacating the ban: that Brady had no notice; that no standards were set for testing the psi of the footballs; that Goodell was biased; and that the arbitration was unfair.

The NFL argued again and again that Berman needs to defer to the rules of engagement set forth in the CBA, Which is desperation and may really backfire. If Judge Berman vacates, can one not argue that Goodell should never act in this fashion in the future? which empower Goodell to both issue the discipline and serve as the appeal officer.

Bob McGovern: Boston Sun
and:
"What's the problem having [Pash] testify?" asked Berman. "He edited the Wells Report. Nobody else edited the Wells Report. He was the co-lead on the investigation with Mr. Wells."

Nash responded that Goodell felt Pash "was not a relevant witness," which is why Pash was not questioned during Brady's June 26 appeal.

According to Nash, Goodell did allow the NFLPA to question Wells as to Pash's importance. Berman appeared to waggle his head upon hearing that explanation.

Nash also blamed a press release announcing Wells and Pash as co- investigators as having fermented unnecessary interest in Pash's role, to which Berman said, "Well, you all wrote [the press release]."

When Nash tried to move away from the question of Pash, Berman returned to the topic, again asking who else edited the Wells Report.

Nash explained that Goodell determined Pash's testimony was "cumulative" and there was no need for questioning. Author's confession: Tom E. Curran I'm not sure exactly what that means, but the notion of employing "cumulative" testimony by the NFL really rankled Berman, who said cases have been vacated based on allowing "cumulative" testimony.

"It's not sufficient just to say his testimony would have been cumulative," said Berman.

Tom E. Curran: CSNNNNnnnnnNNNnnnE
--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:16 pm

Image
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 71014
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom

Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:06 pm

A couple of attorneys have recommended this latest write-up by Dan Wetzel on Yahoo Sports. I will quote the salient points:
Yet as the attorney [Daniel Nash, NFL--Ed.] made his presentation he kept getting interrupted by Judge Richard M. Berman, who repeatedly engaged in direct counterarguments against Nash, sometimes even warning that legal precedent suggested the NFL could lose its case.
. . . .

Berman could still rule for the NFL and could just be playing Devil's Advocate – this is a United States District Court, not a political debate – but it sure didn't feel that way here on Wednesday morning. One example among many?

"There has to be some basic process of fairness that needs to be followed," Berman argued to Nash after the NFL explained why it failed to allow Brady to question certain witnesses, notably general counsel Jeff Pash, who also co-wrote the disputed Ted Wells report about deflated footballs.

. . . .

Kessler and the NFLPA argued that the league never provided notice to Brady that "general knowledge" of an infraction could lead to a suspension, that it didn't allow a fair arbitration system, that Goodell knew he was compromised as an arbiter because he had previously praised the findings of Wells' report, that the commissioner improperly increased the findings against Brady from "generally aware" to a full participant in a "scheme" based on no authority and no additional information, that the science of Wells' report was junk, that the NFL didn't provide attorney notes to the NFLPA in violation of federal standards and … so on and so on.

Kessler, as is his way, was often flamboyant and laced his presentation with comic ridiculousness. He noted, for instance, that the footballs were, on average, just 1-2 percentage points underinflated and yet the NFL deemed it a grand conspiracy despite not being able to accurately measure the inflation levels. He likened it to getting pulled over for being 1 mile per hour above the speed limit and asking the police officer how he measured the speed.

"I counted, 'One Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi, and I can tell you were 1 mile over,'" Kessler said, role-playing a cop.
. . . .
Nash's basic counter was that under the collective bargaining agreement, Goodell has sweeping power and, essentially, even if the system set up is imperfect or objectionable, so what? Goodell, he said, is the arbiter and arbiters make rulings and the court is obligated to respect it no matter the fanfare surrounding the case.
. . . .
It may be a salient legal point and one that will win the case for the NFL. Berman, though, didn't appear moved by it. The judge repeatedly noted that just because something is collectively bargained doesn't mean it can violate federal law.

For instance, Berman didn't just nod when Kessler argued that it says nowhere in NFL policy that a player can be suspended – or punished at all – for being "generally aware" of the conduct of others.
. . . .
Why, Berman kept asking, didn't Wells include a reference to the AFC championship game or even the date of it, Jan. 18, 2015?

"To me it is a conspicuous absence from Mr. Wells' finding," Berman said, noting that game and that game alone is what is in question here, not text messages referring to past games. "Why wouldn't you – he's a smart lawyer – say on January 18, 2015?"

Nash argued that it wasn't needed because the impetus for Wells' report was the AFC title game. Berman said that gave him, "some pause" and called it a leap to just base everything on "probably done it before or some guy from the Colts saying they do it all the time."

As an appreciative Kessler noted later to more courtroom laughs, "Your Honor is spot-on."

Berman also focused on how the NFL came up with the four-game standard, drilling Nash over and over about where this number came from, how much of it was about non-cooperation and how much for the footballs. Kessler argued that the crime was similar to stick 'em on a receiver's hands or any other act like that, which under NFL policy is subject to a four-figure fine for the first offense, not a suspension.

Nash said Goodell decided to liken it to performance-enhancing drugs, which Berman couldn't fathom.

"How is it equal to steroid use?" the judge asked with a tone of disbelief. "How did he pick steroid use?"
. . . .
As for Brady not being allowed to question Pash about his role in Wells' report, Berman blasted Goodell's reasoning that it wasn't allowed because the testimony would be "cumulative."

"How would you know?" Berman asked if Pash didn't testify. When Nash downplayed Pash's contributions, Berman had none of it.

"Who else but Mr. Pash had the opportunity to edit the Wells report before it became public?" Berman asked. "Anybody?"
. . . .
"Under the law the arbitrator doesn't have the authority to determine evidence will be cumulative. They can not just conclude that. I would ask you, who else but Mr. Pash could have given testimony about his edits or how extensive they were? Who else could have possibly given the testimony of Mr. Pash? … What I am saying is it's not sufficient to just conclude his testimony would be cumulative."

There was more, of course. A lot more. On every one of Kessler's points, Berman seemed to take a sympathetic stance and in turn was adversarial to the NFL. What that means in the end isn't determined, but consider toward the end, after Berman went after Nash for the suggestion that you could infer Brady was cheating because he stated that his preferred inflation level was 12.5 pounds per square inch, the legal limit. How, Berman wondered, could wanting the legal limit be a sign of illegal behavior?

Kessler obviously agreed and since he was pressed for time tried to paraphrase Brady's testimony on the subject. Berman stopped him, said he was allowed extra minutes and then requested that Kessler read Brady's exact words into the record. Kessler eagerly complied, reading in open court and for the court reporter a long session of Brady's testimony that can only be considered pro-NFLPA.

If you can't read into that, well …

Dan Wetzel: Yahoo Sports
Image

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

ImageWS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! ImageNBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup!Image SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!! Image

User avatar
Pyrrho
Posts: 27890
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:34 am

Image
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.