## Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

We are the Borg.
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I fucking hate wearing a mask.
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I don't like it either, but I think it beats having a bad case of the Wuhan flu.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Yep
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

There's an idea being discussed called "cross-immunity". The idea here is that maybe prior exposure to, for example, a different kind of coronavirus might confer some resistance to this version. Does this seem plausible?

Experts suspect cross immunity explains Japan's low coronavirus death rate
TOKYO -- Some experts say cross immunity is the reason for the low death rate among novel coronavirus patients in Japan and other parts of Asia compared to that in Europe and North America.

When viruses that an individual has never been infected with enter the human body, the body makes antibodies, or proteins that combat the foreign substances. The first antibody to appear is Immunoglobulin M (IgM), while Immunoglobulin G (IgG) is produced later. While IgM antibodies disappear fairly quickly, IgG antibodies remain for a prolonged period and continue to protect the body from the same viruses.

When a team of researchers including Tatsuhiko Kodama, leader of the cancer metabolism project at the University of Tokyo's Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology, studied the blood samples of coronavirus patients, IgG antibodies had increased in volume faster than IgM antibodies for some.

Kodama says this proves such people have immunity, since they were infected with a virus similar to the novel coronavirus that may have spread across Asia before. "Cross immunity may have worked when those people got infected with the new coronavirus," he commented.

A team of researchers at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in the United States has also pointed out that cross immunity may have worked for some people. According to a paper released by the American scientific journal Cell, researchers found immune cells that reacted to the new coronavirus from about a half of the blood samples collected from 20 people in the United States between 2015 and 2018.

Could differences in immune response, possibly because of prior exposure to different coronaviruses explain why some people get very sick, while others not so much, or not at all in some cases?

It reminds me of the story I heard a long time ago about how vaccines were invented. Someone observed that a person who had been infected with cow pox had some resistance or immunity to small pox. Cow pox was a milder disease than small pox. From that the idea was born that maybe you could give people immunity or resistance to small pox by first intentionally giving them cow pox. That would be a kind of "cross immunity" would it not? Exposure to one virus could thereby provide some immunity to another virus, no?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Witness
Posts: 35238
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Anaxagoras wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:15 am Could differences in immune response, possibly because of prior exposure to different coronaviruses explain why some people get very sick, while others not so much, or not at all in some cases?
Not about coronaviruses, but the idea isn't really new:
Edward Jenner (1749-1823), an English doctor, became interested in the idea that previous illness with a disease called cowpox could protect a person from later becoming ill with smallpox. Jenner's biographer claimed that Jenner heard this folk wisdom from a milkmaid: having caught cowpox from a cow, she believed herself, and her smooth skin, safe from smallpox.

Cowpox is an uncommon illness in cattle, usually mild, that can be spread from a cow to humans via sores on the cow. During an infection, dairy workers may have pustules on their hands. Sufferers can spread the infection to other parts of the body.

We know now that the cowpox virus belongs to the Orthopox family of viruses. Orthopox viruses also include horsepox virus, monkeypox virus and variola viruses, which cause smallpox.
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/conte ... -infection

Doctor X
Posts: 74153
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Well . . . yes.

– J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out." – Don
DocX: FTW. – sparks
"Doctor X wins again." – Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry." – His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone." – clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far." – Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig." – Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power." – asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." – gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X6!!!!!!
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The term vaccine derives from the Latin word for cow
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
The Atheist
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Auckland

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

FDA withdraws emergency approval.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... hloroquine
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
sparks
Posts: 17238
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

That cat is the spitting image of my 20 pounder Max when he was that age. Fucking amazing. Been well over a year and I still miss the little shit.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

They are doing some testing in Japan for antibodies. Looks like herd immunity still remains a long way off, but whatever measures are being taken to contain the spread seem to be working..

Tokyo has 0.1% positive rate for coronavirus antibodies: gov't
Antibody tests for the novel coronavirus suggest a 0.1 percent infection rate in Tokyo, health minister Katsunobu Kato said Tuesday, as the government seeks to better grasp the scale of the pandemic's spread in Japan.

The health ministry earlier this month began testing for coronavirus antibodies in Tokyo as well as in Osaka and Miyagi prefectures. The positive rates for Osaka and Miyagi in the country's west and northeast were 0.17 percent and 0.03 percent, respectively.

Samples were collected from a total of about 8,000 people in the three regions. The presence of antibodies indicates a person has been infected with the virus, regardless of whether the person developed symptoms.

The results show only a very limited spread of the virus and, while different testing kits can yield different results, they compare with positive rates of some 20 percent detected in antibody tests in New York City and 5 percent in Spain.

But the figures are still notably higher than the 0.015 percent infection rate based on the 18,261 people confirmed to have caught the virus in Japan as of Monday out of the country's total population of roughly 125.9 million.

A rough estimate of course, but at face value it suggests there may have been something on the order of 7 times more cases than were captured in the official count of confirmed cases. But about 99.9% of the population has not had the virus yet.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
The Atheist
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Auckland

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Pyrrho wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:39 am twitter.com/angie_rasmussen
Worth noting that it wasn't a release by press, but a release by UK's Chief Medical Officer.

I pick it being sufficiently important factual news to be released as a general release than in a medical journal.
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

SURE it does.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Wouldn’t antibody testing be required if anyone does a vaccine trial?
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I just recalled the HIV vaccine trial they were going to do back in the late 90s

Except they wanted to try it on chimps first, using a SIV vaccine (SIV being almost the exact same virus)

They had spent a lot of money getting enough chimps to do a big study. Before starting the experiment they tested all the chimps to make sure they didn’t have SIV

That was the last I heard of that study. Seems every chimp in captivity has SIV, which was interesting, considering how often and how many times in the old days medical people used chimps, baboons and monkeys to transplant organs into people

But that is another topic
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

And yeah, I already know about SV40 and how it got into the general human population
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

rt.live has updated their model as of June 19th, and it shows significantly higher rates of reproduction than the last time I looked at it.

https://rt.live/

Worth a look.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Witness
Posts: 35238
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

robinson wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:31 am how often and how many times in the old days medical people used chimps, baboons and monkeys to transplant organs into people
Good question: how often? Do you have sources?
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Mostly print, but most people remember the baby with the baboon heart

And the infamous chimp kidney transplant disaster

Well, OK probably only really old people like me
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

I know

shocking considering how many problems we now know can happen from cross species virus transfers
still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
robinson
Posts: 14693
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:01 am
Location: USA

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

still working on Sophrosyne, but I will no doubt end up with Hubris
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:51 pm So? How does one obtain such a credential?

Is a cooperative MD sufficient?

Code: Select all

https://www.ftbagency.com/your-tools
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Abdul Alhazred wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:51 pm So? How does one obtain such a credential?

Is a cooperative MD sufficient?
You don't need a doctor. It's an ipse dixit declaration. "FTBA" stands for "Freedom To Breathe Agency". It's not a government agency and has no legal powers of enforcement, although maybe they have the power to harass people or sue them, since anyone can sue anyone for anything.

As far as the "Americans with Disability Act (ADA)" that they claim makes them exempt from wearing a mask, IANAL, but it sounds dubious to me. However, business owners who also aren't lawyers might not want to chance it. Getting sued under the ADA is a risk most would probably prefer to avoid.

So it may work in practice as a bluff, but I doubt such a lawsuit would have legal merit. Still, getting sued can be costly and a nuisance even if the suit is without merit.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Witness
Posts: 35238
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The faster a country required masks, the fewer coronavirus deaths it had: study

Some countries have been devastated by the novel coronavirus, and others have escaped lightly.

Why the extreme differences? The main one is that countries that quickly resorted to widespread mask-wearing had far lower death rates and shorter outbreaks, a new study argues.

The authors looked at coronavirus death rates in 198 countries, trying to see why some had painfully high death rates and others very low.

“What we found was that of the big variables that you can control which influence mortality, one was wearing masks,” says Christopher Leffler of Virginia Commonwealth University, one of the study’s authors.

“It wasn’t just by a few per cent, it was up to a hundred times less mortality. The countries that introduced masks from the very beginning of their outbreak have had hardly any deaths.”

...

A Cambridge University study released earlier this month reached similar conclusions.

“Research shows that even homemade masks made from cotton T-shirts or dishcloths can prove 90 per cent effective at preventing transmission,” it argued.

“Crude homemade masks primarily reduce disease spread by catching the wearer’s own virus particles, breathed directly into fabric, whereas inhaled air is often sucked in around the exposed sides of the mask.”

Simple cloth masks have a long history in the West during times of respiratory disease going back to the 1918 flu epidemic, Leffler says.
The Atheist
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Auckland

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Witness wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 am
The faster a country required masks, the fewer coronavirus deaths it had: study
Now, if people want to bash WHO, this is the thing they should be bashed with. The early bullshit about not needing masks to protect medical supplies is rendered nonsensical by the fact a home-made mask works fine, as long as everyfuckingbody wears one.

As the piece notes, we do have a bit of experience in how masks affect respiratory diseases and WHO was completely remiss in not urging everyone to mask up early on.

If you haven't seen this, it's fairly telling as well: https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/0 ... ronavirus/

When one person can infect a whole choir when singing and allegedly standing over a metre apart, not infecting customers while cutting their hair is pretty stark. (The headline isn't accurate, but there haven't been any cases found despite testing ~40% of the customers)
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The Atheist wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:09 am
Witness wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:04 am
The faster a country required masks, the fewer coronavirus deaths it had: study
Now, if people want to bash WHO, this is the thing they should be bashed with. The early bullshit about not needing masks to protect medical supplies is rendered nonsensical by the fact a home-made mask works fine, as long as everyfuckingbody wears one.

As the piece notes, we do have a bit of experience in how masks affect respiratory diseases and WHO was completely remiss in not urging everyone to mask up early on.

If you haven't seen this, it's fairly telling as well: https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2020/0 ... ronavirus/

When one person can infect a whole choir when singing and allegedly standing over a metre apart, not infecting customers while cutting their hair is pretty stark. (The headline isn't accurate, but there haven't been any cases found despite testing ~40% of the customers)
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
The Atheist
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Auckland

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Is that the same miraculous breathing system that the virus attacks, and in some cases, attacks it so relentlessly lungs aren't even recognisable as lungs?

But then, the god also invented the virus.
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.
sparks
Posts: 17238
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

He works in mysterious ways. Largely because He's a fucking moron. He creates us ill, and then commands us to get well. WTF kinda bullshit is that? It's His bullshit(tm) of course.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
The Atheist
Posts: 1444
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Auckland

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

sparks wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:06 pm He works in mysterious ways.
The greatest cop-out answer of all time.

If I had a lousy dollar for every time I've heard a christian expound that - or very similar - bullshit, I'd buy the boat for you.
Jeff Wagg, Communication and Outreach Manager for the James Randi Educational Foundation posted:

"It is my job to inform other JREF employees about people who wish to do the JREF harm, and you [The Atheist] are one of those.
sparks
Posts: 17238
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:13 pm
Location: Friar McWallclocks Bar -- Where time stands still while you lean over!

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

The other favorite is "It's a mystery." A cheesy variant on the mysterious ways routine.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

Info from the CDC:

Coronavirus may have infected 10 times more Americans than reported, CDC says (Reuters)

Yeah, a lot of us guessed that was the case a long time ago, but they have evidences.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Government experts believe more than 20 million Americans could have contracted the coronavirus, 10 times more than official counts, indicating many people without symptoms have or have had the disease, senior administration officials said.

The estimate, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is based on serology testing used to determine the presence of antibodies that show whether an individual has had the disease, the officials said.

The officials, speaking to a small group of reporters on Wednesday night, said the estimate was based on the number of known cases, between 2.3 million and 2.4 million, multiplied by the average rate of antibodies seen from the serology tests, about an average of 10 to 1.

“If you multiply the cases by that ratio, that’s where you get that 20 million figure,” said one official.

The way that's worded is confusing to me. Can't you estimate the prevalence in the population from the serology testing alone?

So unnamed "senior administration officials" briefed "a small group of reporters" for this story. Does that make it fake news? Why not go on the record?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

CDC Director Robert Redfield was the source.
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/5 ... than-known
Why your particular article didn't mention him by name, I don't know.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

He isn't a senior administration official

Or is he? Now I'm not sure
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)
Pyrrho
Posts: 31460
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

More detail:

https://www.propublica.org/article/he-r ... -hospitals
He Removed Labels That Said “Medical Use Prohibited,” Then Tried to Sell Thousands of Masks to Officials Who Distribute to Hospitals
Using TaskRabbit and Venmo, a Silicon Valley investor and his business partner had workers repackage non-medical KN95 masks so he could sell them to Texas emergency workers.
The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 29431
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Wuhan Flu Truth and Big Brother Narratives

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare (probably Socrates originally)