## Thought Provoking Graphs

This is our lounge area. Feel free to come in and get acquainted!
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Thought Provoking Graphs

Pick one. From anywhere. Mark it up.

http://static.dyp.im/7x7ahVhNY8/f20be00 ... 4d70e0.JPG

Is low (but population sustaining) birthrate really that big a disadvantage? The ratio of supporters to supported is visually a little different than it would logically seem.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Well the population cannot increase forever. I don't know what the sustainable limit is, but logically there must be one.

No, I've thought about this before, and everyone only focuses on the down sides of a low birth rate: the high ratio of retirees to workers.

But as long as productivity per worker keeps increasing, I don't think it's such a huge problem.

http://econbrowser.com/wp-content/uploa ... graph2.gif

http://jerrykhachoyan.com/wp-content/up ... perwrk.jpg

So as long as the trend in productivity per worker continues to rise as it has, standards of living can still go up even when a smaller percentage of the population is of working age (there may need to be some more redistribution though).

In one of these threads I posted a graph showing that it costs much more to raise a child today than in the past, but I'm not going to go looking for that just now. Suffice it to say that the large population of minors in developing countries doesn't necessarily mean that more money is being spent on those kids than on the small population of kids in developed countries. In fact, I'd bet that the opposite is true.
Pyrrho
Posts: 34081
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:17 am
Title: Man in Black
Location: Division 6

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Swamp gas sightings 1950 to present. Uptick coincides with global warming.

http://s13.postimg.org/59dxc4f9z/ufosightings.jpg

http://www.quandl.com/NUFORC/SIGHTINGS-UFO-Sightings
ed
Posts: 42467
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: That Firebrand

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Rob Lister wrote: Is low (but population sustaining) birthrate really that big a disadvantage? The ratio of supporters to supported is visually a little different than it would logically seem.
The issue is not intra nation, it is inter nation. When intellect and productivity and advancement and enlightenment principles reach an unsustainable minimum the world will change into an ugly place. Suppose they are allowed to enter the bastions of the remnants of the enlightenment? Suppose their ideals become the reality since they have the vote. This in incredibly elitist but in this scenario, the poorest black guy will have more in common with a college professor than the people who will be the majority. Elite is relative.

Think the year 645 in England.
Bruce
Posts: 20851
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:46 pm
Title: Bruce of all Bruces
Location: Massachusetts

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Pyrrho wrote:Swamp gas sightings 1950 to present. Uptick coincides with global warming.

http://s13.postimg.org/59dxc4f9z/ufosightings.jpg

http://www.quandl.com/NUFORC/SIGHTINGS-UFO-Sightings
Meanwhile, the refracted light from Venus was less than expected.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/p ... theory.png
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Japan at least is surrounded by oceans. Not so easy to get here from Africa.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Anaxagoras wrote:Suffice it to say that the large population of minors in developing countries doesn't necessarily mean that more money is being spent on those kids than on the small population of kids in developed countries. In fact, I'd bet that the opposite is true.
And the distribution may different too. Kids might start work at 6. Adults may stop at death.
WildCat
Posts: 24493
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:53 am
Location: The Old Northwest

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Rob Lister wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:Suffice it to say that the large population of minors in developing countries doesn't necessarily mean that more money is being spent on those kids than on the small population of kids in developed countries. In fact, I'd bet that the opposite is true.
And the distribution may different too. Kids might start work at 6. Adults may stop at death.
At the old age of 45.
Witness
Posts: 35689
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

http://infobeautiful3.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... _code5.png
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Your Graphs Look Like Crap: 9 Ways to Simplify and Sexify Data
Inbound Marketing (blog)

:P
That was kind of scary.
It smelled like cubicles and bosses.

So glad to be unemployed and broke when I see stuff like that.
I dig the Jackson Pollack style graph.
Thanks for the reminder.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Witness wrote:(Snip)
I'm calling bullshit on the Healthcare.gov website having 500 million lines of code.

Even opponents say that number is preposterous:

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/20 ... s-of-code/
Witness
Posts: 35689
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

hammegk
Posts: 15132
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:16 pm
Title: Curmudgeon
Location: Hither, sometimes Yon

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Winter March of Napoleon.

Sorry: unwilling to make it larger size.
Witness
Posts: 35689
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Here's a clearer one:
http://www.datavis.ca/gallery/minard/1812-2.jpg
Thickness ~ number of survivors.
Doctor X
Posts: 79835
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Something I have been reviewing to depart from my Normal Work:

http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-as ... t-fig1.jpg

--J.D.
clarsct
Posts: 5872
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:30 am

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

There is a slight anomaly in the Hiroshima graph that is somewhat fascinating. From about 2.5-3 kilometers from the blast, the numbers increase. Falling buildings causing injuries, or was there better reporting for some reason?
Doctor X
Posts: 79835
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

This is pure speculation based on some research. One of the major problems with Hiroshima and Nagasaki is no one really knows how many people were there at the time of the bombings. There are guestimates. Hiroshima was a major military city which drew in a lot of outsiders.

At the hypocenter--oddly enough a hospital which has since been rebuilt--people and buildings were vaporized. The "aiming point" was a bridge--missed--which preserved "shadows" of people on it. Go out a bit and you had basically shrunken carbonized bodies. No one counted those. Then you have those severely injured: blinded with a New Burn Grading damage to skin which--literally--was hanging off their limbs. Not many of them would survive.

Then, as you note, you have those killed by other reasons--building collapse is a major one. Of the top of my head, something like 89% of building were destroyed. The author of the manga Barefoot Gen which is far better than the Japanese Original Animation adaption suffered the same fate as a few survivors: watching relatives/siblings pinned under debris and being burned to death. Many died from the fires.

I do not have it in front of me, but a Hiroshima doctor remarked on the low percentage of survivors with broken limbs. Reason: those with broken limbs could not escape the fire. From survivors descriptions it was a literal hell on Earth.

So, close to the hypocenter you have only approximations of death tolls. In many cases you had no bodies. Further out you have "survivors" who died quickly. Many tried to find water/safety in cisterns and in the river in which they died. Many bodies were sent out to sea. Further out you actually get bodies you can "count."

It is a rather grim reality that no one really knows how many were killed. To further the horror, Nagasaki was bombed only because the primary had too much cloud cover. Many were "saved" at Nagasaki because of some screw ups and weather such that the bomb was dropped far from its target and much of its effect was dissipated by a mountain, I believe. A lot of butt-hurt over that with brass questioning the pilot in charge all the way down to bitching between him and Tibbetts years later. It seems he fucked up a bit.

Even with all of that, many died. The bomb was far more powerful.

Yet, the Japanese military wished to continue the war. Some claimed--seriously--that international horror to the bombing would force the United States NOT to use further bombs. Yup. Further, though Hirohito was intentionally portrayed--MacArthur!--as wanting to end the war subsequent documents show that he would have wanted it to continue IF surrender meant loss of his position. Some of his relatives suggested he abdicate in favor of a son--this would allow peace since the US and allies could go after him as a war criminal while the "sitting" Emperor would be maintained.

He refused.

The lesson in all of this is that war is so terrible it makes such things necessary.

--J.D.
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Nice write, Doc.
Glad to be learning things here.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

What do these things have in common?

http://www.thebestschools.org/wp-conten ... 50x497.jpg

College tuition, medical care and home prices.

Compared to everything else.
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

There's a lovely graph that correlates obesity and religiosity in the U.S.

(The new Jesus is a 300 pounder, and the spikes are tearing through his bloated flesh. It adds nicely to the sacrifice he made.)
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Well post it!

Personally I'm a bit skeptical that's a real correlation. Although, now that I think about it, I have a theory why it might be true.

More religious = more likely to get married = more likely to get fat

Married is the missing link. Particularly married w/ children.

Or I could be totally wrong because I just pulled that one out of my ass.
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Anaxagoras wrote:Well post it!

Personally I'm a bit skeptical that's a real correlation. Although, now that I think about it, I have a theory why it might be true.

More religious = more likely to get married = more likely to get fat

Married is the missing link. Particularly married w/ children.

Or I could be totally wrong because I just pulled that one out of my ass.

There are graphs that demonstrate willingness to pull it out of one's ass and geography.

Sorry,I am presently unable to make links.

But I love your marriage hypothesis. It would work well in Mexico.
Witness
Posts: 35689
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

http://i.imgur.com/oV1uorT.png
8)
Doctor X
Posts: 79835
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

THANKS OBAMA!!11!!

--J.D.
clarsct
Posts: 5872
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:30 am

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Meh..

Likely has more to do with the Religious Right.

Thanks for the read, BTW, Doc X. Was good. I believe the precise number of people who died in those two bombings is 'A metric Fuckton'.

Which may still be less than would've died had we tried to invade....
Doctor X
Posts: 79835
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

clarsct wrote:Thanks for the read, BTW, Doc X. Was good. I believe the precise number of people who died in those two bombings is 'A metric Fuckton'.

Which may still be less than would've died had we tried to invade....
Credit where credit is due, but the book Downfall is very detailed on the Japanese casualties happening just from the blockade, those happening from the fire-bombing. Further, the loses from airmen flying those missions--they were not "safe." Then add in the loses of American POWs. Then add in the Chinese and other civilians dying from famine and, well, torture/execution. The numbers are in the tens of thousands . . . per . . . month.

Realistic casualty estimates of an invasion--which did not believe the Japanese knew where they would invade--equal the casualties already suffered in the entire war up to that time. We are talking about a million expected casualties.

And the Japanese thought this was a "good thing" as in this would be enough for the US to sue for peace. If only they could inflict some great "victory" on the US. Hirohito--whom I refuse to refer to as "Showa"--held out to the last for this fleeting promise.

The reality sunk in that Tokyo was next. The US had one more working bomb and Tokyo was the target. Japanese military types tried to argue the US could not "possibly have a lot of bombs"--as if that means something--to which I would retort you know exactly how many bombs the US has when Tokyo is vaporized. It became clear to Hirohito--specifically--that the US would continue bombing and they would bomb Tokyo. The firebombings--which everyone reminds killed more than the atomic bombs did--demonstrated the US was willing to bomb the capitol.

None of this is "good."

It became "necessary."

--J.D.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

http://static.dyp.im/1JpnDUWJV2/6a20e32 ... c7d394.JPG

What the fuck is going on in Kansas!?

That is thought provoking. It's easy to get sarcastic about such an outlier but I wonder if this is a flaw in the data or there is some very popular or insanely fast internet proxy there that folks like Pyrrho and Matt use for surfing porn at work.
Doctor X
Posts: 79835
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

You live in Kansas.

What the fuck else are you going to do?

--J.D.
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

"We aren't in Kansas anymore, are we Toto?"

Well, it turns out that Judy Garland was onto something.

I started doing some research on Kansas:

Get this!
Kansas City isn't even in Kansas!
Sick, right?

Turns out, it's in fucking Missouri!
Yup. The goddamned 'show me' state.

(and that's just the tip of the iceberg, people.)
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Pretty sure that Kansas City, Kansas is in Kansas. I think I've even been there.
quarky
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:44 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Rob Lister wrote:Pretty sure that Kansas City, Kansas is in Kansas. I think I've even been there.

Are you on drugs?

That's what they want you to think.

hammegk
Posts: 15132
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:16 pm
Title: Curmudgeon
Location: Hither, sometimes Yon

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

quarky wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Pretty sure that Kansas City, Kansas is in Kansas. I think I've even been there.

Are you on drugs?

That's what they want you to think.

Across the river from KC, KS.
Witness
Posts: 35689
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

http://infobeautiful3.s3.amazonaws.com/ ... scoped.png
Details
ed
Posts: 42467
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: That Firebrand

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Doctor X wrote:
clarsct wrote:Thanks for the read, BTW, Doc X. Was good. I believe the precise number of people who died in those two bombings is 'A metric Fuckton'.

Which may still be less than would've died had we tried to invade....
Credit where credit is due, but the book Downfall is very detailed on the Japanese casualties happening just from the blockade, those happening from the fire-bombing. Further, the loses from airmen flying those missions--they were not "safe." Then add in the loses of American POWs. Then add in the Chinese and other civilians dying from famine and, well, torture/execution. The numbers are in the tens of thousands . . . per . . . month.

Realistic casualty estimates of an invasion--which did not believe the Japanese knew where they would invade--equal the casualties already suffered in the entire war up to that time. We are talking about a million expected casualties.

And the Japanese thought this was a "good thing" as in this would be enough for the US to sue for peace. If only they could inflict some great "victory" on the US. Hirohito--whom I refuse to refer to as "Showa"--held out to the last for this fleeting promise.

The reality sunk in that Tokyo was next. The US had one more working bomb and Tokyo was the target. Japanese military types tried to argue the US could not "possibly have a lot of bombs"--as if that means something--to which I would retort you know exactly how many bombs the US has when Tokyo is vaporized. It became clear to Hirohito--specifically--that the US would continue bombing and they would bomb Tokyo. The firebombings--which everyone reminds killed more than the atomic bombs did--demonstrated the US was willing to bomb the capitol.

None of this is "good."

It became "necessary."

--J.D.
I read somewhere that they had a million body bags ... waiting. As it was, they were keeping my Dad in, just in case. What that would have meant for the proto moi, I haven't a clue but it probably would not have been very good. I recommend Retribution by the estimable Sir Max Hastings for the wars end game.
http://www.amazon.com/Retribution-Battl ... 816&sr=1-6

Just bought Downfall, looks interesting as a companion piece to Hasting's work.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

http://i.imgur.com/yZ1hazw.jpg

I'm closer 50% on other and 20% on fast

but it depends on the definition of fast. Is delivery considered other or fast? It usually isn't really fast and I eat it at home. fucking graphs.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Looks right.

A couple more to complement that one:

http://corncorps.files.wordpress.com/20 ... n-food.png

http://www.ers.usda.gov/media/1173143/f ... _fig02.gif

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/d ... gdc223.png

http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/gates.png

Nonetheless, supposedly 1 in 6 Americans struggles with hunger.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

The last graph about the poor is a no-brainer. There are, after all, minimum requirements, with minimum costs. That doesn't change because you make less.

Viewing any of these as a function of income percentage is interesting, but I wonder too what it looks like in terms of actual dollars. So, a little work to work it backward

US: $1923 (seems low for me) UK:$1960 (seems really low for AC [fat bastard])
Fr: $3397 (holy shit) SA:$688
Br: $1279 In:$217
Last edited by Rob Lister on Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Anaxagoras
Posts: 30333
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:45 am
Location: Yokohama/Tokyo, Japan

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Rob Lister wrote:The last graph about the poor is a no-brainer. There are, after all, minimum requirements, with minimum costs. That doesn't change because you make less.

Viewing any of these as a function of income percentage is interesting, but I wonder too what it looks like in terms of actual dollars. So, a little work to work it backward

US: $1923 (seems low for me) UK:$1960 (seems really low for AC [fat bastard])
Fr: $3397 (holy shit) SA:$688
Look at the right hand side on the second to last one.
Rob Lister
Posts: 23535
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Anaxagoras wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:The last graph about the poor is a no-brainer. There are, after all, minimum requirements, with minimum costs. That doesn't change because you make less.

Viewing any of these as a function of income percentage is interesting, but I wonder too what it looks like in terms of actual dollars. So, a little work to work it backward

US: $1923 (seems low for me) UK:$1960 (seems really low for AC [fat bastard])
Fr: $3397 (holy shit) SA:$688
Look at the right hand side on the second to last one.
\$217. And that's household income. And those are crowded houses. I'm going to send them a fucking sandwich.
MrMonty
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:37 pm
Location: NE Ohio

### Re: Thought Provoking Graphs

Rob Lister wrote:
What the fuck is going on in Kansas!?

That is thought provoking. It's easy to get sarcastic about such an outlier but I wonder if this is a flaw in the data or there is some very popular or insanely fast internet proxy there that folks like Pyrrho and Matt use for surfing porn at work.
Google Fiber first rolled out in Kansas.