Deflategate

Never agree to 3 points on top of the vig.
Grammatron
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Deflategate

Post by Grammatron »

Now that NFL has released a very weasel-worded report that "may or may not" be blaming anyone, where does NE Patriots organization go from here?
Anaxagoras
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Gisele should dump that loser, date me instead

Post by Anaxagoras »

No Justice, No Peace!

Cheating cheater Tom Brady -- who while not as bad as Hitler is probably worse than Pol Pot -- should be stripped of all super bowl victories, his rings and sports cars confiscated, and banned from the NFL for life!!!!1ELEVENTY! :x :x :x
jacks
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Re: Deflategate

Post by jacks »

The team should be sold and moved to Los Angeles, Boston should be returned to the British.
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Loser teams say what?

I am listening to a lot of opinions. This was certainly a paid-for report and a lot of people are laughing that the "scientific experts" used were the same that tried to argue that tobacco smoking does not lead to lung cancer and asbestos does not lead to mesothelioma! Unexplained is way 3/4 of INDY's balls were . . . underinflated!

Cutting away the fat of fan boys and haters a lot depends on what Tom does. His agent gave a scathing rebuttal which noted how it constantly tried to hide its weaknesses in footnotes as is often in legal documents. It is a bought report which gave the NFL "what it wanted." However, if Kraft paid the same people, I would have expected "it is more probable than not" that this was a conspiracy by the NFL against the Pats.

That being written, the report rather makes the NFL and in particular the officials look like buffoons.

Unlike other players Tom has the resources to fight anything--including funding his own investigation. Since the report in a rare moment of decision cleared His Billness and Kraft, Kraft after excoriating the report stated the team would not fight further in a "to what end." That does not mean he includes his QB in this.

So wait for the penalty if anything.

Then wait for how Tom responds to it.

Remember, we are dealing with a league that cancelled the suspensions Rodgerkins levied for Bountygate.

--J.D.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Evolver »

The New Yorker

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. (The Borowitz Report) – In what football insiders are calling an unexpectedly severe punishment, the National Football League has sentenced the New England Patriots’ quarterback Tom Brady to a year with the New York Jets for his role in the so-called Deflategate scandal.

The punishment drew howls of protest from Patriots fans and management, with many calling it the harshest in league history, but N.F.L. Commissioner Roger Goodell defended the decision as “a necessary deterrent.”

“We need to send the message that this league has zero tolerance for cheating,” Goodell said. “We believe that a year of playing quarterback for the Jets sends that message loud and clear.”

Brady was reportedly in a state of shock when he heard the news of his punishment. He later met with reporters in a hastily called press conference during which he frequently seemed on the verge of tears.

“I am going to fight this decision with every fibre of my being,” Brady said. “This is America. You can’t force a person to play for the Jets.”

At a sports bar in Manhattan, the reaction to the impending arrival of the Jets’ longtime nemesis was muted. One Jets fan observed, “Look, Brady’s a dick, but even he didn’t deserve this.”
Rob Lister
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister »

Doctor X wrote:Loser teams say what?

I am listening to a lot of opinions. This was certainly a paid-for report and a lot of people are laughing that the "scientific experts" used were the same that tried to argue that tobacco smoking does not lead to lung cancer and asbestos does not lead to mesothelioma! Unexplained is way 3/4 of INDY's balls were . . . underinflated!

Cutting away the fat of fan boys and haters a lot depends on what Tom does. His agent gave a scathing rebuttal which noted how it constantly tried to hide its weaknesses in footnotes as is often in legal documents. It is a bought report which gave the NFL "what it wanted." However, if Kraft paid the same people, I would have expected "it is more probable than not" that this was a conspiracy by the NFL against the Pats.

That being written, the report rather makes the NFL and in particular the officials look like buffoons.

Unlike other players Tom has the resources to fight anything--including funding his own investigation. Since the report in a rare moment of decision cleared His Billness and Kraft, Kraft after excoriating the report stated the team would not fight further in a "to what end." That does not mean he includes his QB in this.

So wait for the penalty if anything.

Then wait for how Tom responds to it.

Remember, we are dealing with a league that cancelled the suspensions Rodgerkins levied for Bountygate.

--J.D.
OMFG. Do you think he had a hand in doing it or not!?



This ain't baseball goddammit.

He is clearly complicit. Provable or not ... depending on the upcoming testimony of the ball boys ... who must be embarrassed by their very title.

Belichick too motherfucker, but no one will ever prove it.

P. fucking S. i DONT give a fuck either way. Belichck is a cheat, cheat, cheat, and that's okay with me. Brady is a cheat too but that's not okay.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Rob Lister wrote:OMFG. Do you think he had a hand in doing it or not!?
If the Wells report, by a committee which consists of lawyers who represent the NFL and defended it in litigation, particularly against those seeking compensation for covering up concussions, do not know, how am I to know?

Leave aside the whole problem of this being irrelevant.

--J.D.
Rob Lister
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister »

Doctor X wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:OMFG. Do you think he had a hand in doing it or not!?
If the Wells report, by a committee which consists of lawyers who represent the NFL and defended it in litigation, particularly against those seeking compensation for covering up concussions, do not know, how am I to know?

Leave aside the whole problem of this being irrelevant.

--J.D.
OMFG 2

Dude. Answer the question.

Did Brady cheat or not?

"Yes" is the word you're looking for.

Three game suspension.
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Rob Lister wrote:I will now engage in a temper-tantrum because the Report did not say what I wanted it to say.

I will now scream for a punishment greater than that meted out to an abuser.
When you are done and regain your senses do let us know.

--J.D.
Anaxagoras
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Anaxagoras »

Well there is a distinction between things done off the field, which, while they may be horrible and reprehensible, don't affect the integrity of the game, and cheating which does directly affect the integrity of the game.

That said, it's kind of like a pitcher being caught using a foreign substance or a batter with a corked bat. In cases of those in baseball, you had a 10-game suspension (really about a 2 or 3-start suspension for a starting pitcher) for that and Sammy Sosa was suspended for 8 games for using a corked bat. The equivalent for the NFL would be like 1 game.
Grammatron
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Grammatron »

Anaxagoras wrote:Well there is a distinction between things done off the field, which, while they may be horrible and reprehensible, don't affect the integrity of the game, and cheating which does directly affect the integrity of the game.

That said, it's kind of like a pitcher being caught using a foreign substance or a batter with a corked bat. In cases of those in baseball, you had a 10-game suspension (really about a 2 or 3-start suspension for a starting pitcher) for that and Sammy Sosa was suspended for 8 games for using a corked bat. The equivalent for the NFL would be like 1 game.
I dunno. I'm not a NE fang, but this seems to be a case of extreme gamesmanship than cheating. And even then, other teams and QBs seem to do it as well. I think it speaks more to NFL's inability to follow their own system of checks and balances.
Rob Lister
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister »

Doctor X wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:I will now engage in a temper-tantrum because the Report did not say what I wanted it to say.

I will now scream for a punishment greater than that meted out to an abuser.
When you are done and regain your senses do let us know.

--J.D.
Brady wrote:"I don't have really any reaction. It's only been 30 hours, so I haven't had much time to digest it, but when I do I'll be sure to let you know how I feel about it—and everybody else."
4-game suspension. Would you like 5?
Last edited by Rob Lister on Tue May 12, 2015 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
jacks
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Re: Deflategate

Post by jacks »

Rob Lister wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:I will now engage in a temper-tantrum because the Report did not say what I wanted it to say.

I will now scream for a punishment greater than that meted out to an abuser.
When you are done and regain your senses do let us know.

--J.D.
Brady wrote:"I don't have really any reaction. It's only been 30 hours, so I haven't had much time to digest it, but when I do I'll be sure to let you know how I feel about it—and everybody else."
4-game suspension. Would you like 5?
He really didn't say anything, let his lawyer and agent do the talking, didn't he also say something like when you're in the public eye some people try to knock
you down, see he's the victim.
Rob Lister
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister »

jacks wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Doctor X wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:I will now engage in a temper-tantrum because the Report did not say what I wanted it to say.

I will now scream for a punishment greater than that meted out to an abuser.
When you are done and regain your senses do let us know.

--J.D.
Brady wrote:"I don't have really any reaction. It's only been 30 hours, so I haven't had much time to digest it, but when I do I'll be sure to let you know how I feel about it—and everybody else."
4-game suspension. Would you like 5?
He really didn't say anything, let his lawyer and agent do the talking, didn't he also say something like when you're in the public eye some people try to knock
you down, see he's the victim.
Yea. You're right. He could have said, 'If they did that they did so without my knowledge or approval and I'm not buying them a nice car.'

That he didn't say that doesn't speak volumes.
izittrue
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Re: Deflategate

Post by izittrue »

Must be a slow news week. Why are we rehashing this? I'm sure the powers that be will figure something out that won't please everyone. But I would like to see Brady traded for Cutler.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Jealousy.

--J.D.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho »

https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/201 ... report.pdf

Jump to page 121 for the conclusions.
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Pyrrho wrote:https://nesncom.files.wordpress.com/201 ... report.pdf

Jump to page 121 for the conclusions.
Save the time and read one of the first rebuttals:
"The Wells report, with all due respect, is a significant and terrible disappointment. It's omission of key facts and lines of inquiry suggest the investigators reached a conclusion first, and then determined so-called facts later.

"One fact alone taints this entire report. What does it say about the league office's protocols and ethics when it allows one team to tip it off to an issue prior to a championship game, and no league officials or game officials notified the Patriots of the same issue prior to the game? This suggests it may be more probable than not that the league cooperated with the Colts in perpetrating a sting operation. The Wells report buries this issue in a footnote on page 46 without any further elaboration.
"The league is a significant client of the investigators' law firm; it appears to be a rich source of billings and media exposure based on content in the law firm's website. This was not an independent investigation and the contents of the report bear that out -- all one has to do is read closely and critically, as opposed to simply reading headlines.

"The investigators' assumptions and inferences are easily debunked or subject to multiple interpretations. Much of the report's vulnerabilities are buried in the footnotes, which is a common legal writing tactic. It is a sad day for the league as it has abdicated the resolution of football-specific issues to people who don't understand the context or culture of the sport.

"I was physically present for my client's interview. I have verbatim notes of the interview. Tom made himself available for nearly an entire day and patiently answered every question. It was clear to me the investigators had limited understanding of professional football. For reasons unknown, the Wells report omitted nearly all of Tom's testimony, most of which was critical because it would have provided this report with the context that it lacks.

"Mr. Wells promised back in January to share the results of this investigation publicly, so why not follow through and make public all of the information gathered and let the public draw its own conclusions? This report contains significant and tragic flaws, and it is common knowledge in the legal industry that reports like this generally are written for the benefit of the purchaser."

Don Yee
--J.D.
Pyrrho
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho »

FWIW, the NFL lost me at "more probable than not."
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Indeed. Though the language was used to fit the NFL threshold for a violation as well as to avoid a libel suit as explained by a t3h r34lz Sports Lawyer worth the listen to:

Michael McCann

--J.D.
Pyrrho
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho »

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/footb ... -tom-brady
"I don't have any doubt about my son's integrity - not one bit," Tom Brady Sr. told USA Today Sports on Wednesday. "In this country, you're innocent until proven guilty. It just seems Tommy is now guilty until proven innocent.

"This thing is so convoluted. They say that possibly - possibly - he was aware of this," he added. "The reality is if you can't prove he did it, then he's innocent, and lay off him. That's the bottom line.

"They had to protect their asses, and that's what they're doing," Brady Sr. said. "I just read that four Colts balls were underinflated. Amazing. Amazing.

"They're saying he's possibly aware. How do you put a cloud over somebody like this?" he asked. "To impugn somebody without conclusive evidence saying this is more probable than not? The reality is they have scientific evidence. Now they're overriding the scientific evidence and badgering the Patriots. It's disgusting."
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Re: Gisele should dump that loser, date me instead

Post by hammegk »

Anaxagoras wrote:No Justice, No Peace!

Cheating cheater Tom Brady -- who while not as bad as Hitler is probably worse than Pol Pot -- should be stripped of all super bowl victories, his rings and sports cars confiscated, and banned from the NFL for life!!!!1ELEVENTY! :x :x :x
And shoot his wife?
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/p ... er(22).jpg

--J.D.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

The more who read it and re-read it, the more it falls apart:
Earlier today, I spent way too much time hunting-and-pecking my way through an item regarding the problems with the two pressure gauges used to measure the Patriots footballs at halftime of the AFC title game. I spent so much time focused on the nuances that I didn’t give proper attention to perhaps the most obvious problem of all.

To summarize, the NFL had two air pressure gauges available at the game. One had a Wilson logo on the back and a long, crooked needle. The other did not have a Wilson logo, and a shorter, straighter needle.

The gauge with the logo and the longer needle generated higher measurements of the Patriots footballs at halftime, ranging from 0.3 PSI to 0.45 PSI higher for each of the 11 footballs. If that gauge — the one with the logo and the longer, crooked needle — were used to set the PSI for the balls before the game began, the measurements from that gauge are the right measurements to rely upon at halftime. And those measurements show that there was no tampering, because most of the footballs fell within the 11.52 to 11.32 PSI range for halftime, as predicted by the Ideal Gas Law.

Referee Walt Anderson didn’t clearly recall which gauge he used to set the pressure in the Patriots balls at 12.5 PSI before the game. Page 52 of the Wells report reveals that it was Anderson’s “best recollection” that he used before the game the gauge with the logo and the longer, crooked needle. In other words, Anderson recalls using the gauge before the game that, based on the halftime measurements, leads to a finding of no tampering.

So how did Ted Wells get around the “best recollection” of Walt Anderson? Wells persuaded Anderson to admit that it’s “certainly possible” he used the other gauge. And the company hired to provide technical support for the Wells report concluded based on a convoluted explanation appearing at pages 116-17 of the report that it is “more probable than not” that Anderson used the other gauge.
Let that sink in a bit. The answer Anderson gave--the referee Wells lauds throughout the report--was not the answer Wells wanted. It was the answer that indicated no tampering happened. So he persuades the man he lauds for his "recollection" that it is "possible" it is the other way around despite his lauded recollection then concludes it is "more probable than not." Thus:
In other words, the Wells report concludes on this critical point that it’s “more probable than not” that Anderson’s “best recollection” was wrong.

Why should Anderson’s “best recollection” be doubted? He knew that there was a concern about tampering with the footballs. He presumably was paying more careful attention to the process of getting the balls filled with air before the AFC title game than he normally does.

So which gauge did you use, Walt, realizing that there could be a question later about the inflation of the footballs?

“Well, my best recollection is that I used the one with the long, crooked needle.”

Is it possible, Walt, that you used the other gauge that was available? You know, the one that for whatever reason measures the air pressure at 0.3 to 0.45 PSI lower?

“Well, I don’t know about that. . . .”

Isn’t it possible, Walt?

“Well, it’s certainly possible.”

That’s how investigations that start with a predetermined outcome and work backward unfold.(Holy crap, I think I’m beginning to agree with Don Yee.) And that’s why Wells should have concluded based on the scientific evidence that the question of whether tampering occurred in connection with the AFC title game is inconclusive.

Regardless of whether certain executives in the league office wanted the Patriots to be found guilty of cheating or whether Wells personally believed based on the non-scientific evidence that cheating must have happened, something prevented Wells from making a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence. And a truly objective assessment of the scientific evidence should have led to this conclusion: It’s unclear whether tampering occurred.

This doesn’t mean the Patriots should be exonerated.
Florio is not a Patriots Ball Deflator Washer. He continues:
The texts between Larry and Curly and the potential involvement of Tom Brady a/k/a Moe Howard requires further examination regarding whether there was a pattern of deliberate efforts to get the footballs below 12.5 PSI at kickoff on a regular basis.And Tom Brady should be presumed guilty at best and suspended indefinitely until he gives up his text messages and emails at worst for his failure to cooperate with the investigation.
This is, of course, ridiculous. Brady is not required to turn over these, and given the "leaks," and the fact the Wells publishes texts from "Larry and Curly" which were of a personal nature and not connected to the possible deflation of balls, one cannot blame his refusal. However, the Players Union--of which Brady is a member of course--opposed such as a precedent.

However, Those Who Wring Their Hands over Brady's texts have to assume that, some how, in some way, "Larry and Curly" kept the questionable texts--which TWWTH tout as "EVIDENCES!!!11!"--and some how, in some way, utterly destroyed the texts where "Moe" instructed them to tamper with balls after they have been approved by the refs.
But as it relates to the AFC title game, the scientific evidence was resolved not simply by a coin flip, but by a coin flip that Walt Anderson recalls as landing heads, and that someone else decided was actually tails. If discipline is going to be imposed on the Patriots or any individuals, it needs to be based on something other than whatever did or didn’t happen before the AFC title game.

Mike Florio: ProFootballTalk

This pretty much encapsulates what should happen.

Matt Chatham: WEEI NFL Sunday

Worth a listen.

--J.D.
jacks
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Re: Deflategate

Post by jacks »

Henry Drummond: The Gospel according to Brady! God speaks to Brady, and Brady tells the world! Brady, Brady, Brady, Almighty!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053946/quotes

Oh, Brady just got the NFL fuck. Let the games begin.
Last edited by jacks on Mon May 11, 2015 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
izittrue
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Re: Deflategate

Post by izittrue »

Breaking news. Brady suspended....
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Tiosylanyl »

Enlightening really....

http://yourteamcheats.com
Pyrrho
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho »

4 game suspension for Brady.

$1 million fine for The Patriots.

Give up 2 draft picks. 1st round pick now, 4th round pick in 2017.

Ball handlers suspended indefinitely.
Rob Lister
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Rob Lister »

It is good to call it. The ball-boy union should complain that the ring leader was met with a lesser punishment. But if you do the math, his four-game salary is probably their combined career salary so it all evens out.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Simply helps the conspiracy theorists who feel Goodel is a baby having a tantrum and simply hates Belichick. One of the interviews above discusses how a judge basically concluded Goodel lied about his handling of Ray Rice. It is personal, he has been made to look like a fool all last year, so he is acting out trying to appear "law and order."

Raping women? 4 games.

Targeting other players to injure them for money? No games ultimately.

Beat a woman unconscious? 2 games.

Pipe in music to impair the other team's signaling? No draft picks, no real fine.

Tamper? Minimal fine no loss of draft picks.

Have your team become the most suspended for PEDs in history? No fine. No draft picks.

No actual evidence of wrong doing? 4 games.

"It is what it is."

The Union is already screaming, this will go before an arbiter, so this is a "stay tuned." Separating the Fan Boys from both sides who suggest Kraft should sue and bar the NFL from the stadium or want Brady executed tomorrow and the team sold to Silver, most of the rational types feel the excessiveness of the suspension is designed knowing it will be reduced, probably at least cut in half. The big question is how far Brady wishes to push it.

Nevertheless, Vegas is currently favoring the Pats over the Squealers in the opening game. I do expect--if the suspension holds or is reduced to at least include that game--Kraft to cancel all celebrations including the raising of the banner. This will be post-poned until Brady returns.

Goodel will be informed he is "not welcome."

Or as his agent has promised:
We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic. The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me.
Start warming up the popcorn. . . .

--J.D.
jacks
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Re: Deflategate

Post by jacks »

There's gonna be popcorn?
Last edited by jacks on Tue May 12, 2015 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Gonna need a lot of it.

--J.D.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Pyrrho »

https://media3.giphy.com/media/RHiD0K65NxxLO/200_s.gif
Doctor X
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Doctor X »

Meanwhile:
That's crazy. That's (the NFL's) best player right there. They fucked up on that one.

--Big Papi
[youtube]0Wep2m9rsng[/youtube]

--J.D.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Grammatron »

Roger Goodell is not happy, that's a paddlin'
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Evolver »

It is more probable than not that Wells conclusions are exactly what Goodell paid him to conclude.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Grammatron »

Evolver wrote:It is more probable than not that Wells conclusions are exactly what Goodell paid him to conclude.
Nah. It comes down to Goodell personally feeling slighted based on conversations and attempted conversations with Patriots and its owners/players/coaches.
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Evolver »

You didn't see what I did there?
Grammatron
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Re: Deflategate

Post by Grammatron »

Evolver wrote:You didn't see what I did there?
I did (including teh funny), but I don't think the report's findings are not accurate. As I've said before, I believe almost all teams (if not every team) maintain their own preference in ball pressure, but not all of them are Patriots and not all of them are coached by the someone with so little fucks to give. Goodell wants total control and when he does not have it, he gets angry and throws around suspensions and fines. Goodell wants his ring kissed, if he still gets that then the suspension may be lessened and draft picks restored. Otherwise this coming season will be under his microscope.
ed
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Re: Deflategate

Post by ed »

the integrity of the game
:doglaugh:

Football is a wonderbra that separates commercials. That is the "integrity" of the game.

http://d13beo3f7vpmvd.cloudfront.net/wp ... 3OtXsk.png

Pullleeeeze