Bezos FTW

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Nyarlathotep
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 pm

Here's how I think these affect the political system

Voter turnout - I am not convinced that higher voter turnout would change much. I do think that low voter turnout is a symptom, though. A symptom that most people feel very disconnected from politics. They feel their vote doesn't matter, even a little. So, they don't vote. What to do about that? Fuck if I know.

Voter suppression - Both parties are going to try to suppress those other motherfuckers as hard as they can. Much easier to do it when you control the statehouse, so the GOP has the edge there (because they control most state legislatures and governorships). Though when the Dems are in control, they are happy to do it too, so they don't get to play innocent there either.

Corruption - That, really, is what the politicians are in it for. Of course it's rampant. It would be weird if it were otherwise.

Hyper Partisan Politics - I think the internet has magnified partisanship to a huge degree. And both sides have gone from merely thinking the other is wrong, to actively wanting to wipe out the other. So yeah, it's a huge fucking problem.

The low quality of candidates - Entirely subjective. One guy's boring policy wonk is another guy's answer to all of America's problem.

Public distrust of the political system - Entirely deserved. Talk to me when it starts being worthy of trust. Especially since at that point, everyone's free pony will have been delivered.
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Grammatron
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:35 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:22 pm
Here's how I think these affect the political system

Voter turnout - I am not convinced that higher voter turnout would change much. I do think that low voter turnout is a symptom, though. A symptom that most people feel very disconnected from politics. They feel their vote doesn't matter, even a little. So, they don't vote. What to do about that? Fuck if I know.

Voter suppression - Both parties are going to try to suppress those other motherfuckers as hard as they can. Much easier to do it when you control the statehouse, so the GOP has the edge there (because they control most state legislatures and governorships). Though when the Dems are in control, they are happy to do it too, so they don't get to play innocent there either.

Corruption - That, really, is what the politicians are in it for. Of course it's rampant. It would be weird if it were otherwise.

Hyper Partisan Politics - I think the internet has magnified partisanship to a huge degree. And both sides have gone from merely thinking the other is wrong, to actively wanting to wipe out the other. So yeah, it's a huge fucking problem.

The low quality of candidates - Entirely subjective. One guy's boring policy wonk is another guy's answer to all of America's problem.

Public distrust of the political system - Entirely deserved. Talk to me when it starts being worthy of trust. Especially since at that point, everyone's free pony will have been delivered.
Valid and reasonable. Can be argued in academic sense but that's about it.

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm

I'd say Nyar is right with these demurrals / additional observations.

Voter suppression exaggerated, voter fraud underplayed.

As a government employee, I take a Vicar of Bray or courtier approach == I serve whatsoever prince destiny places over me.

Also that the Democrats losing their shit since 2016 really is unprecedented, even if the other stuff is all business as usual.
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:44 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm
I'd say Nyar is right with these demurrals / additional observations.

Voter suppression exaggerated, voter fraud underplayed.

As a government employee, I take a Vicar of Bray or courtier approach == I serve whatsoever prince destiny places over me.

Also that the Democrats losing their shit since 2016 really is unprecedented, even if the other stuff is all business as usual.
My theory is that when you are the party in power, you cheat via voter suppression. When you are not, you cheat via voter fraud.

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm
Also that the Democrats losing their shit since 2016 really is unprecedented, even if the other stuff is all business as usual.
I am not sure it's that unprecedented.

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:44 pm
My theory is that when you are the party in power, you cheat via voter suppression. When you are not, you cheat via voter fraud.
I would say even in power, voter fraud is more important.
That is at least since the voting rights act of 1965.

Actual suppression (as distinct from BS accusing the other guy) is quite difficult compared to fraud.

At least in big Democrat cities, actual attempts at scaring Republicans away from the polls are rare, whereas fraud is just what is always done.
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:08 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:06 pm
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:36 pm
Also that the Democrats losing their shit since 2016 really is unprecedented, even if the other stuff is all business as usual.
I am not sure it's that unprecedented.
In my lifetime, at least at this magnitude.
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Grammatron » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:14 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 pm
Nyarlathotep wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:44 pm
My theory is that when you are the party in power, you cheat via voter suppression. When you are not, you cheat via voter fraud.
I would say even in power, voter fraud is more important.
That is at least since the voting rights act of 1965.

Actual suppression (as distinct from BS accusing the other guy) is quite difficult compared to fraud.

At least in big Democrat cities, actual attempts at scaring Republicans away from the polls are rare, whereas fraud is just what is always done.
Better description would be voter disenfranchisement. Otherwise it's a crazy coincidence that no Republican live in California.

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Pyrrho
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:18 am


The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Surprise » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:48 am

Grammatron wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:54 pm
Surprise wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm
corplinx wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:19 pm
Okay, Bezos called their bluff.

Does this suddenly mean we forgive Bezos for the WaPO becoming a political organ under a charlatan doublespeak mantra about Democracy dying in the dark.

Responsibility for FakeNews rolls up the top.

I see it as a battle between two tabloids and my care meter is low.
American Democracy is not very healthy.

Some indicators are -
Voter turnout
Voter suppression
Corruption
Hyper Partisan Politics
The low quality of candidates
Public distrust of the political system
Sure if you're talking about Latin America
Being able to say you are better than Latin America is not reasurring.

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Doctor X
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Doctor X » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:37 am

Actually, it is.

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:45 am

Doctor X wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:20 pm
The alternative is what, exactly?

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WildCat
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by WildCat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 pm

Surprise wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm
Voter suppression
File that under "shit that doesn't happen".
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by WildCat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:26 pm

Doctor X wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:20 pm
The alternative is what, exactly?

--J.D.
Socialism of course. In a Socialist system the government will approve the candidates in advance, so only top quality candidates will be on the ballot. And they will call it democratic.
Do you have questions about God?

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by WildCat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:29 pm

Surprise wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:48 am
Being able to say you are better than Latin America is not reasurring.
Why? Are they all shithole countries down there?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:37 pm

WildCat wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 pm
Surprise wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm
Voter suppression
File that under "shit that doesn't happen".
:roll:


An easy way to suppress voters would be to reduce the number of polling places.

The farther away it is and the longer the line of people, the more people will say fuck it, it isn't worth it.

What if there was just one polling place in the whole state? Ok, ridiculous, but the principle applies. fewer polling places near where people live means fewer voters.
Last edited by Anaxagoras on Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by WildCat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:38 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:37 pm
WildCat wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 pm
Surprise wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm
Voter suppression
File that under "shit that doesn't happen".
:roll:
Provide an example.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:41 pm

WildCat wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:38 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:37 pm
WildCat wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:25 pm
Surprise wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:07 pm
Voter suppression
File that under "shit that doesn't happen".
:roll:
Provide an example.
An easy way to suppress voters would be to reduce the number of polling places.

The farther away it is and the longer the line of people, the more people will say fuck it, it isn't worth it.

What if there was just one polling place in the whole state? Ok, ridiculous, but the principle applies. fewer polling places near where people live means fewer voters.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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WildCat
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by WildCat » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:41 pm
An easy way to suppress voters would be to reduce the number of polling places.

The farther away it is and the longer the line of people, the more people will say fuck it, it isn't worth it.

What if there was just one polling place in the whole state? Ok, ridiculous, but the principle applies. fewer polling places near where people live means fewer voters.
So you're saying the suburban and especially rural areas are suppressed?
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Bezos FTW

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:00 pm

WildCat wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:43 pm
Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:41 pm
An easy way to suppress voters would be to reduce the number of polling places.

The farther away it is and the longer the line of people, the more people will say fuck it, it isn't worth it.

What if there was just one polling place in the whole state? Ok, ridiculous, but the principle applies. fewer polling places near where people live means fewer voters.
So you're saying the suburban and especially rural areas are suppressed?
People who live in rural areas have cars. I grew up in the country. It's a basic requirement if you don't live in a city.

https://www.thenation.com/article/there ... ights-act/

Should people have to wait in a line for 5 hours to vote? It's not just about how long it takes to get to the polling place, it's about how long the line is when you get there. Would you wait in line for 5 hours?
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare