The war between wetware and hardware.
ed
Posts: 36848
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar

So, my home is not wired for Cat-5 (and if there is now a Cat-6, anyone who smugly informsd me of that supremely useless fact will get a kick in the ball sac ) but more to the point the gate is about 1000 feet away. Now I would like to set up cameras at the gate for a variety of reasons but, damn, it's far away. I was thinking RF or something then I came across this

If connections are on the same leg you are golden.

I think.

There shouldnt be line loss that impairs performance, should there be? Isn't that why we went to the noughts and ones?

But, hell, cool cheap tech. Whats not to like?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Abdul Alhazred
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Cat 6?

Get with the program ed old boy.

The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

ed
Posts: 36848
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar

I warned you.

Cerially, whats not to like, right?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Rob Lister
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Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

ed wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:29 pm
So, my home is not wired for Cat-5 (and if there is now a Cat-6, anyone who smugly informsd me of that supremely useless fact will get a kick in the ball sac ) but more to the point the gate is about 1000 feet away. Now I would like to set up cameras at the gate for a variety of reasons but, damn, it's far away. I was thinking RF or something then I came across this
blah
You would run into the same problem you have with cat5 having a span greater than 300 feet; the racing effect coupled with amplitude loss would cause problems. It would probably work fairly well but you'd lose more bits than you'd receive so the error rate would be very high causing re-transmittal delays. Figure 5-10 Mbs, tops

The way it is generally handled is to have a powered switch repeat the signal every ~250 feet. So you'd need 3 cheap switches at the 250-, 500-, and 750-foot points. Total cost? probably $50; switches are cheap. ed Posts: 36848 Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar ### Re: Powerline Adapters Rob Lister wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:47 pm ed wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:29 pm So, my home is not wired for Cat-5 (and if there is now a Cat-6, anyone who smugly informsd me of that supremely useless fact will get a kick in the ball sac ) but more to the point the gate is about 1000 feet away. Now I would like to set up cameras at the gate for a variety of reasons but, damn, it's far away. I was thinking RF or something then I came across this blah You would run into the same problem you have with cat5 having a span greater than 300 feet; the racing effect coupled with amplitude loss would cause problems. It would probably work fairly well but you'd lose more bits than you'd receive so the error rate would be very high causing re-transmittal delays. Figure 5-10 Mbs, tops The way it is generally handled is to have a powered switch repeat the signal every ~250 feet. So you'd need 3 cheap switches at the 250-, 500-, and 750-foot points. Total cost? probably$50; switches are cheap.
I want to make sure we are on the same page ... the 1000 ft span would be covered by my 120v powerline, not cat 5.

Would you have that kind of loss with an underground powerline?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Rob Lister
Posts: 21440
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

I'm on the same page. You'd have the same issue with powerline that you'd have with cat5. More in fact because powerline generally sucks anyway (it is not a twisted pair per bit). I don't know the spec off the top of my head but I assure you it is less than cat5. It is in fact what killed the power company's initiative to compete with DSL (10 Mbs tops).

Where switches are less than 328 feet apart.

Feel free to cheat a bit. There's no strict cat5 cutoff at 328 but at 328 more packets have parity errors than don't. It's non-linear so at 250 feet, 99% of packets get through.

I'd guess that with cat5, at 1000 ft, 99% of the packets would have parity errors. So also, 99% of the re-transmittals. etc. It would crawl. With powerline? My guess is 99.9%.

With the above setup not exceeding 250 feet between devices, you'd be golden.

p. fucking s.: with the right pringle antennas, you could do it strictly wirelessly. Your throughput might be as good as 10Mbs.
Spoiler:
Not really good enough for video but certainly good enough for stills.

p.p. fucking s.: If you don't care about the expense and you want to be cool... nay, Abdul-cool, go fiber. 40 miles is easy.
Last edited by Rob Lister on Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ed
Posts: 36848
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar

hmmmm ....

Thanks.

So what is the solution? A mexican with a Polaroid stationed at the gate? FM transmission? How do they do it in those movies where the evil guy is in his lair and the cable runs are like 2 miles?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 79471
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago

Hey ed! I hear you're rich.

Be the first one on your block with Cat 8 cabling every-fucking-where on your property including the boat house.

Do they still have "blocks" out in the swamps?
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

Rob Lister
Posts: 21440
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

ed wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:34 pm
hmmmm ....

Thanks.

So what is the solution? A mexican with a Polaroid stationed at the gate? FM transmission? How do they do it in those movies where the evil guy is in his lair and the cable runs are like 2 miles?
You're going to run a power cable anyway, right? So run an ethernet cable as well.
SolidLink CAT5e 1000ft UTP Solid Conductor Cable 24AWG LAN Network Ethernet RJ45 Wire, Blue
Price: $49.99 Prime FREE Delivery Details amazon.com/SolidLink-1000ft-Conductor-Network-Ethernet/dp/B019PLC6GA/ref=asc_df_B019PLC6GA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198076677096&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12760057405642292917&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008537&hvtargid=pla-379048177162&psc=1 You can bury the switch and cable if you want. As long as it has power and is protected against the elements, it will last forever. Switches are about$10 each on Amazon if you go highball.

ed
Posts: 36848
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar

Rob Lister wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:45 pm
ed wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:34 pm
hmmmm ....

Thanks.

So what is the solution? A mexican with a Polaroid stationed at the gate? FM transmission? How do they do it in those movies where the evil guy is in his lair and the cable runs are like 2 miles?
You're going to run a power cable anyway, right? So run an ethernet cable as well.
SolidLink CAT5e 1000ft UTP Solid Conductor Cable 24AWG LAN Network Ethernet RJ45 Wire, Blue
Price: $49.99 Prime FREE Delivery Details amazon.com/SolidLink-1000ft-Conductor-Network-Ethernet/dp/B019PLC6GA/ref=asc_df_B019PLC6GA/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198076677096&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12760057405642292917&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008537&hvtargid=pla-379048177162&psc=1 You can bury the switch and cable if you want. As long as it has power and is protected against the elements, it will last forever. Switches are about$10 each on Amazon if you go highball.
Cool Hand would have been here already and fixed eveything. You don't care.

Why is the cat5 better than the powerline?

I hate this crap.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Rob Lister
Posts: 21440
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed

ed wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:04 pm

Why is the cat5 better than the powerline?
power line cable

cat5 cable

That twist is critical for high-speed data. The longer the cable, the greater the racing effect. The greater the racing effect, the greater the parity mismatch. The greater the parity mismatches, the lower the baud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_condition#Networking
This can be greatly mitigated by twisting bit-pairs. 1-5, 2-6, 3-7, 4-8. Not sure I'm remembering right.

The difference between cat5, 6, 8, is the twist. really that's it.

But if you put your power line devices in a freezer, you should get the same results.

ed
Posts: 36848
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: The Hero of Sukhbataar

hahahahahahahahahhaahahahaaaaaaaa

Good one.

So your reccomendationione is to run some sorta cat with amplifier gizmos every footballfield and be done with it.

That sum it up?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!
My indifference is boundless

Rob Lister
Posts: 21440
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 7:15 pm
Title: Incipient toppler
Location: Swimming in Lake Ed