Heating Solutions

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asthmatic camel
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:22 pm
Your other butt-buddy, DeBunk, had a hidden gas meter/connection in his pantry, IIR.
He didn't have a gas meter at all. British Gas wouldn't believe him and showed up with the police, that was the problem. :D

They still didn't believe him and sent two van loads of engineers round to disconnect his non-existent connection from outside, digging up his garden in the process. That's when he videoed the proceedings while wearing his underpants on his head and shouting "Wibble! Wibble!", and posted it all over the web.

One of a kind, De-Bunk. :)
Last edited by asthmatic camel on Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:26 pm

I remember him denying it but I could swear I heard a :wink: :wink: between the lines.

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asthmatic camel
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:30 pm

I'll ask the next time he calls but I'm pretty sure he was telling the truth.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Witness » Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:26 am

asthmatic camel wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:51 am
They are, however, a massive pain in the arse. :D
Indeed. One of my neighbors had a fireplace installed. (It was all going to be so much more pleasant.) First winter, I got a whiff of burning wood from time to time. Second, not so much. Now? Nothing. :mrgreen:

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:18 am

Well, now that the nights are drawing in and it's getting a little chilly around the willy, I've had a chance to put my grand design to the test. As I'm giving the house a facelift anyway, I decided to take the plunge and fit correctly rated products in every room. Three of them are illustrated with pictures which, whilst I may not have chosen them at a gallery, are more attractive than plain white panels. The results? Largely a big positive. Firstly and most importantly, Mrs. Camel likes them, ("That's Raga!", quoth she, walking into the bedroom and lapsing into patois.) Secondly, they're much cheaper to run than other electric heaters, especially when used with thermostatic plugs. Thirdly, they're easy to install, (all you need to do is drill four holes, hang them on the wall and plug them in.), and maintenance-free; They're supposed to last for up to twenty years but I'm a little skeptical about that claim. We shall see.

The downside? Compared to other electric heaters, the initial outlay is high. With the thermostatic plugs, they've cost me around £650 in total, about three times as much as the cheapest alternative. On the other hand, that's about three times less than a new gas system would be, and the lower running costs mean that they'll soon pay for themselves. Unless you're very close to them, it takes a while for them to really get going, (10 to 15 minutes). They're not suitable for rooms with a lot of glass; you'll just be heating the outside as glass is transparent to infrared rays.

So, on the whole, I'm a happy camper. :)

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Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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ed
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:17 am

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:25 pm

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3 for <$60

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:58 pm

Fire hazard with all that rubbish strewn about. :)
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:00 pm

And how much do they cost to run, Listy? I can buy, (and have bought), things like that from Poundstretcher round the corner for a similar amount. They're OK for occasional use but, with the cost of electricity here, ruinously expensive as an alternative to gas central heating.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:01 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:58 pm
Fire hazard with all that rubbish strewn about. :)
Faggot!

:-P
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:07 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:00 pm
And how much do they cost to run, Listy? I can buy, (and have bought), things like that from Poundstretcher round the corner for a similar amount. They're OK for occasional use but, with the cost of electricity here, ruinously expensive as an alternative to gas central heating.
They're 500-watt heaters so they cost .5kwh per hour, whatever that costs in your neck of the woods. Pretty much the same as your wall panels which your stated were 450 watts. Plus they have fans to push the warmth out. In a nutshell, they are exactly as efficient as your wall panels (100%), just a whole lot cheaper.

I really don't seem to be getting through to you about this. A watt is a watt is a watt. Every watt hour is 3.4 BTU/hr. It doesn't really matter how you make it, it's still a watt. If you want to create it with an expensive wall panel, that's your choice, but there is no difference in the cost per watt. And every watt heats the same.

The only way you could really go wrong is to create it with a lightbulb and leave your windows shades open, Even then, you're still close to 100%.

Or you could buy a single solar panel. They're cheap at less than $1 per watt. A 250watt panel (actual is closer to 50) would run you less than $250. Hang it on your roof with the wires coming down and connecting to a lightbulb or something. Free heat while the sun is shining.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:20 pm

*SIGH*

Every watt doesn't heat the same, that's what I've been saying. Radiant heating is different from convection heating.

I know from experience that I need something like this to keep my small den and bathroom comfortably warm in the winter. Only £8 to buy but 2 kilowatts; watch the meter spin!. Granted, they're not on all the time as they have built-in thermostats, but neither are the panels.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:30 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:20 pm
*SIGH*

Every watt doesn't heat the same, that's what I've been saying.
Yes, you have been saying that. It just isn't true.
Radiant heating is different from convection heating.
No, it is not.

You can get an infrared heater and point it to yourself and sure, you'll feel it more quickly, but the heat is the same. And eventually, it will heat the room exactly the same. A watt is a watt is a watt.

Here, let this geek tell you.


Have you considered a kerosene heater? I used to have one. You have to get used to the smell but as a former airdale, I always enjoyed the smell. It's got to be cheaper than electricity even in your neck of the woods. I used to cheat and fill up with diesel from the gas station. Really the same thing with a bit more soot.

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by ed » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:51 pm

I used a Ker-O-Sun heater some time ago. Smell wasnt bad. Worked well and cheap.

Hey AC, thoughts on that Blair paper I posted? Or are you afraid they'll swoop down and arrest you?
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:56 pm

ed wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:51 pm
I used a Ker-O-Sun heater some time ago. Smell wasnt bad.
When I smell kerosene, I think of jet engines. The smell of freedom! :freedom:

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:29 pm

From the point of view of paying for it, every watt is the same.
Or rather every watt-hour to be precise.

The question is getting the heat from where it is created to where it is needed.
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:30 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:56 pm
ed wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:51 pm
I used a Ker-O-Sun heater some time ago. Smell wasnt bad.
When I smell kerosene, I think of jet engines. The smell of freedom! :freedom:
And a helluva lot cleaner than napalm in the morning (the other smell of freedom). :P
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:29 pm
From the point of view of paying for it, every watt is the same.
Or rather every watt-hour to be precise.

The question is getting the heat from where it is created to where it is needed.
You're right, kinda. It all ends up the same though. If you want heat quickly, nothing beats an electric blanket. If you ask nice, I have a great sea story about them.

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asthmatic camel
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by asthmatic camel » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:41 pm

*SIGH*

He does mention radiant heaters at 1.58 & 3.00. They look like halogen heaters, (example) and that they do indeed work differently to convection heaters.

This is what the wiki has to say about them:
Radiant heaters
Rectangular space heater
Honeywell electric infrared radiant heater
See also: Infrared heater and Radiant heating and cooling system

The main advantage of radiant heaters is that the infrared radiation they produce is absorbed directly by clothing and skin, without first heating the air in a space. This makes them suitable for warming people in poorly insulated rooms or outdoors, and allows more distance between people and the heater.

Some of the earliest electric heaters were radiant, consisting of nichrome heating wires held by ceramic or mica insulation at the focal point of a (usually) polished metal reflector. The cost was very low since nothing else, not even a switch, was needed. Later models included a wire guard to prevent accidental contact with the heating wires or the hot ceramic.

The metal reflectors needed to be fairly thick, however; a thin metal housing would get too hot to be safe. Inexpensive mid-20th century heaters were radiant, with the heating wires stretched relatively closely across a larger, thin, metal reflector separated from a thin metal housing. A small fan blew just enough air between the housing and the reflector to cool them, and the main output to the room was radiant heat (not heated air). Stretching the heating wires across a larger area required fewer (expensive) ceramic insulators, and a small fan was cheaper than a larger (or heavier) housing.

Quartz heaters are radiant heaters which are more efficient in the amount and direction of heat, with coiled heating wire inside unsealed quartz tubing. The wires could be thinner (or operate at a higher temperature) than ceramic-supported wires. If the heating elements are at a higher temperature, proportionally more energy is radiated than open-wire heaters.

Halogen heaters have tungsten filaments in sealed quartz envelopes, mounted in front of a metal reflector in a plastic case. They operate at a higher temperature than nichrome-wire heaters but not as high as incandescent light bulbs, radiating primarily in the infrared spectrum. They convert up to 86 percent of their input power to radiant energy, losing the remainder to conductive and convective heat.[7] The halogen cycle reduces darkening of the quartz envelope, extending filament life.
Bolding mine. Source

They're not really the same thing as the panels I've bought, and I rejected them as an option because they're not maintenance-free, (the filaments burn out regularly), are generally not wall-mountable and produce near-infrared radiation rather than far-infrared.

I absolutely understand that a watt is a watt is a watt but...

This is my small bathroom, a little smaller than my den, and the 450 watt panel I installed. (I've tidied up a bit so that faggots don't complain.)

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This is the 1800 watt oil-filled radiator I've previously used to heat both, (not at the same time), rather than turn on the central heating.

Image

Both heaters get the bathroom toasty warm but here's my smart meter with the panel on, a 7p per hour increase:

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And with the radiator on, a 26p per hour increase:

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Hey, come round for a bath next time you're in Blighty and check it out for yourself if you don't believe me, these panels work and they work well!
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Rob Lister
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Re: Heating Solutions

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Next time I'm in Blighty I will absolutely share a bath with your wife. I expect her to keep me extra warm.

That said, in all caps, YOU ARE WRONG. If you want directed heat, get a unit with a fan; it will heat a cone in front of it far more betteresetly than an infrared unit. I know wiki sez,...
The main advantage of radiant heaters is that the infrared radiation they produce is absorbed directly by clothing and skin, without first heating the air in a space.
Okay, you go girl. It heats your front while your ass is chillin'. Get a fucking $15 space heater.

Honestly, if electricity is so expensive in your country, get a fucking kerosene heater like ed told you to.

But once you're a territory, it won't matter.