Existence of spirits! do not know ..

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Rob Lister
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Flacus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:12 pm
https://www.netflix.com/br/title/80997400
watch the movie KARDEC on netflix
I thought you were done. If you're going to stay here, you better be in it for the long haul. I don't want to see another <100 post poster. A good sock always does better than 100.

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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:15 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:32 pm
Flacus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:12 pm
https://www.netflix.com/br/title/80997400
watch the movie KARDEC on netflix
I thought you were done. If you're going to stay here, you better be in it for the long haul. I don't want to see another <100 post poster. A good sock always does better than 100.
Why don't you believe in spirits? How did you come to the conclusion that this is a groundless belief?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:25 pm

Uh oh. Maybe ...

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:28 pm

Flacus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:15 pm
Rob Lister wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:32 pm
Flacus wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:12 pm
https://www.netflix.com/br/title/80997400
watch the movie KARDEC on netflix
I thought you were done. If you're going to stay here, you better be in it for the long haul. I don't want to see another <100 post poster. A good sock always does better than 100.
Why don't you believe in spirits? How did you come to the conclusion that this is a groundless belief?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9213932/

Watched the trailer. Doesn't look like compelling evidence to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardec_(film)
Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail, a French educator who, when studying the phenomenon of "Spinning tables ", discovers that there is the possibility of communicating with the spirits. As an encoder of the Spiritism doctrine, Professor Rivail assumes the pseudonym of Allan Kardec and elaborates, under the guidance of the spirits, the five main books that guide Spiritist studies.
Whether this is "based on a true story" or not (and it doesn't even appear to make a claim of being anything other than fiction: it's described as a "drama"), seances basically use parlour tricks to fool the participants.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Séance

You might want to listen to or read this:

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Witness
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Witness » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:36 pm

Image

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:43 pm

I think I get the rest.

What is ASBL?
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

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Witness
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Witness » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:43 pm
I think I get the rest.

What is ASBL?
I presume it means Association Sans But Lucratif, Non-profit Organization.

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Kardec
Rivail was in his early 50s when he became interested in séances, which were a popular entertainment at the time. Strange phenomena attributed to the action of spirits were considered a novelty, featuring objects that moved or "tapped", purportedly under the control of 'spirits'. In some cases, this was alleged to be a type of communication: the supposed spirits answered questions by controlling the movements of objects so as to pick out letters to form words, or simply indicate "yes" or "no".[9][note 1] At the time, Franz Mesmer's theory of animal magnetism had become popular. When confronted with the phenomena described, some researchers, including Rivail, pointed out that animal magnetism might explain them. Rivail, however, after seeing a demonstration, dismissed animal magnetism as insufficient to explain his observations.[10]

As a result of these influences, Rivail began his own investigation of psychic phenomena, mainly mediumship.[2] During his initial investigation, he stated that before accepting a spiritual or paranormal cause for some phenomena, it would be necessary first to test if ordinary material causes could explain them. He proposed that fraud, hallucination and unconscious mental activity might explain many phenomena regarded as mediumistic, and also proposed that telepathy and clairvoyance may be responsible.[11]

He compiled over one thousand questions concerning the nature and mechanisms of spirit communications, the reasons for human life on earth, and aspects of the spiritual realm. He asked those questions to ten mediums, all purportedly unknown to each other, and documented their responses. From these, he concluded that the best explanation was that personalities that had survived death were the source of at least some mediumistic communications.[12] He became convinced that the mediums:

provided accurate information unknown to themselves or others present (e.g. personal information about deceased individuals);
demonstrated unlearned skills such as writing by illiterate mediums, handwriting similar to the alleged communicating personality, and speaking or writing in a language unknown to the medium (xenoglossy and xenography);
accurately portrayed a range of personality characteristics of deceased individuals.
He compiled the mediums' responses that were consistent and adapted them into a philosophy that he called Spiritism, which he initially defined as "a science that deals with the nature, origin, and destiny of spirits, and their relation with the corporeal world."[13][14][14]
OK, so some 19th century dude was fooled by so-called "mediums".
Seances are really pretty well debunked though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritism
Spiritism is a spiritualistic philosophy started in the 19th century by the French educator Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail, who, under the pen name Allan Kardec, wrote books on "the nature, origin, and destiny of spirits, and their relation with the corporeal world".[1][2][3] Spiritists refer to Kardec as the codifier.

Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.[4] Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.

The term first appeared in Kardec's book, The Spirits Book, which sought to distinguish Spiritism from spiritualism.[1]

Spiritism is currently represented in 35 countries by the International Spiritist Council.[5] It has influenced a social movement of healing centers, charity institutions and hospitals involving millions of people in dozens of countries, with the greatest number of adherents in Brazil.[1] Spiritism is also very influential in Cao Đài, a Vietnamese religion started in 1926 by three spirit mediums who claimed to have received messages that identified Allan Kardec as a prophet of a new universal religion.[6]
I guess that would explain why this film is made in Brazil. It's like a minor religion I suppose,
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Witness
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Witness » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:07 am

Kardec still has some followers: people come to his tomb in Paris to "feel" his spirit (no more delusional than "feeling" the presence of gOD at church, say; and no less).

His period was also the heyday of "spirit photography" (extremely crude fakes by today's slightly more sophisticated standards), mediums vomiting ectoplasms, ouija boards, radiesthesia, "scientific" astrology, esotericism e tutti quanti.


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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:50 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Kardec
Rivail was in his early 50s when he became interested in séances, which were a popular entertainment at the time. Strange phenomena attributed to the action of spirits were considered a novelty, featuring objects that moved or "tapped", purportedly under the control of 'spirits'. In some cases, this was alleged to be a type of communication: the supposed spirits answered questions by controlling the movements of objects so as to pick out letters to form words, or simply indicate "yes" or "no".[9][note 1] At the time, Franz Mesmer's theory of animal magnetism had become popular. When confronted with the phenomena described, some researchers, including Rivail, pointed out that animal magnetism might explain them. Rivail, however, after seeing a demonstration, dismissed animal magnetism as insufficient to explain his observations.[10]

As a result of these influences, Rivail began his own investigation of psychic phenomena, mainly mediumship.[2] During his initial investigation, he stated that before accepting a spiritual or paranormal cause for some phenomena, it would be necessary first to test if ordinary material causes could explain them. He proposed that fraud, hallucination and unconscious mental activity might explain many phenomena regarded as mediumistic, and also proposed that telepathy and clairvoyance may be responsible.[11]

He compiled over one thousand questions concerning the nature and mechanisms of spirit communications, the reasons for human life on earth, and aspects of the spiritual realm. He asked those questions to ten mediums, all purportedly unknown to each other, and documented their responses. From these, he concluded that the best explanation was that personalities that had survived death were the source of at least some mediumistic communications.[12] He became convinced that the mediums:

provided accurate information unknown to themselves or others present (e.g. personal information about deceased individuals);
demonstrated unlearned skills such as writing by illiterate mediums, handwriting similar to the alleged communicating personality, and speaking or writing in a language unknown to the medium (xenoglossy and xenography);
accurately portrayed a range of personality characteristics of deceased individuals.
He compiled the mediums' responses that were consistent and adapted them into a philosophy that he called Spiritism, which he initially defined as "a science that deals with the nature, origin, and destiny of spirits, and their relation with the corporeal world."[13][14][14]
OK, so some 19th century dude was fooled by so-called "mediums".
Seances are really pretty well debunked though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritism
Spiritism is a spiritualistic philosophy started in the 19th century by the French educator Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail, who, under the pen name Allan Kardec, wrote books on "the nature, origin, and destiny of spirits, and their relation with the corporeal world".[1][2][3] Spiritists refer to Kardec as the codifier.

Spiritist philosophy postulates that humans, along with all other living beings, are essentially immortal spirits that temporarily inhabit physical bodies for several necessary incarnations to attain moral and intellectual improvement. It also asserts that disembodied spirits, through passive or active mediumship, may have beneficent or malevolent influence on the physical world.[4] Spiritism is an evolution-affirming religion.

The term first appeared in Kardec's book, The Spirits Book, which sought to distinguish Spiritism from spiritualism.[1]

Spiritism is currently represented in 35 countries by the International Spiritist Council.[5] It has influenced a social movement of healing centers, charity institutions and hospitals involving millions of people in dozens of countries, with the greatest number of adherents in Brazil.[1] Spiritism is also very influential in Cao Đài, a Vietnamese religion started in 1926 by three spirit mediums who claimed to have received messages that identified Allan Kardec as a prophet of a new universal religion.[6]
I guess that would explain why this film is made in Brazil. It's like a minor religion I suppose,
https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
skeptics must know everything! This is the link to download these books!
https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by sparks » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:08 am

Was it really necessary to post the link twice?

And no, I won't be downloading the books unless and until you convince me with evidences that teh spiritz exist.

But damn, you can't. It's just a bleef you hang on to 'cause it makes you feel better about yourself.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:29 am

Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 am

https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
skeptics must know everything! This is the link to download these books!
https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
No, not really. I don't need to read the complete works of some 19th Century woo-woo to know that this is bullshit.

BTW, did you read the information I posted above? If you want to know the truth, read it. You probably don't want to know.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:39 am

Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:29 am
Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 am

https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
skeptics must know everything! This is the link to download these books!
https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
No, not really. I don't need to read the complete works of some 19th Century woo-woo to know that this is bullshit.

BTW, did you read the information I posted above? If you want to know the truth, read it. You probably don't want to know.
why do you think this is bullshit? What is your personal empirical evidence that makes you realize that this is bullshit? Have you done a personal research on this belief?

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Anaxagoras
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Anaxagoras » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:28 pm

Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:39 am
Anaxagoras wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:29 am
Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:26 am

https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
skeptics must know everything! This is the link to download these books!
https://ssbaltimore.org/e-books/
No, not really. I don't need to read the complete works of some 19th Century woo-woo to know that this is bullshit.

BTW, did you read the information I posted above? If you want to know the truth, read it. You probably don't want to know.
why do you think this is bullshit? What is your personal empirical evidence that makes you realize that this is bullshit? Have you done a personal research on this belief?
I refer you to the links I posted earlier:
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:01 pm

In a debate each side must prove their assertions. If a skeptic doesn't believe in spirits, he must explain why. Usually his disbelief is based on rejection of the evidence said to demonstrate the existence of spirits. Therefore in a debate, the skeptic is required to justify his position of disbelief by proving that what is asserted to be evidence for the existence of spirits is invalid. He doesn't have to prove spirits don't exist, he only has to prove there is no justification for belief in spirits.

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:10 pm

'Nuff's 'nuff.

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Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Finally! A cogent line of reasoning.

Better cover the tastes of the other major sexual moiety while I'm at it.

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Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
The arc of the moral universe bends towards chaos.
People who believe God or History are on their side provide the chaos.

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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by sparks » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:25 pm

Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:01 pm
In a debate each side must prove their assertions.
Wrong son. It is up to the person making the claim to superior knowledge to prove their point. Not up to us to disprove it. Grow a set and learn.


Son.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:40 pm

sparks wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:25 pm
Flacus wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:01 pm
In a debate each side must prove their assertions.
Wrong son. It is up to the person making the claim to superior knowledge to prove their point. Not up to us to disprove it. Grow a set and learn.


Son.
But then why don't you believe in spirits?

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Flacus
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Re: Existence of spirits! do not know ..

Post by Flacus » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:00 pm

:) :guitar: