Get over yourself, Johnny Football

[Cool Hand]

The guy has amazing and super human mad skillz, but 49-42.

Kyle Field, COLLEGE STATION, TX
1 2 3 4 T
#1 ALA 7 21 14 7 49
#6 TA&M 14 0 7 21 42

And he's an asshole.

Here's how a gentleman handles victory:

http://imgick.al.com/home/bama-media/pg ... 880e0a.JPG

CH

[Grammatron]

CH, you can't compared a kid in college with an adult.

[Cool Hand]

CH, you can't compared a kid in college with an adult.

Sure you can. Saban (and Bear Bryant and many others who followed him, like Bill Curry and Gene Stallings) grooms his players to behave like good sports and gentlemen. He doesn't allow showboating or trash talking, and when his players very occasionally do it, as star running back T.J. Yeldon did on Saturday, the cameras invariably follow Coach Saban on the sidelines to watch him chew them a new asshole for doing so. He doesn't put up with that shit and spends a great deal of time explaining to all his players that that's not what Alabama football is about. It's about The Process, the Whole Person, and playing smart, head-in-the-game, do-your-job fundamental football, 60 minutes at a time, and being a good sport and a gentleman while doing it. None of those things are mutually exclusive.

Coach Saban and his players understand that. Johnny Football does not. The kid has no class.

CH

[ed]

Football is elementally stupid. People that follow it are stupid. It is destroying the moral fabric of our country and should be outlawed. Football players should be forced to get real jobs like selling insurance door to door.

[Cool Hand]

It's about The Process, the Whole Person, and playing smart, head-in-the-game, do-your-job fundamental football, 60 minutes at a time, and being a good sport and a gentleman while doing it.

Nice speech, Knute, but you may want to take it easy on the Kool Aid.

You don't much about Nick Saban, do you? All of those phrases are ones he repeats throughout the week and especially on Saturdays in post-game interviews to the press. You can tell he drills those ideas into his coaching staff and players' heads constantly, because his players have to restrain themselves in post-game interviews. Instead of answering some softball question a reporter asks about what they were thinking when they made that incredible interception or broke 5 tackles to score a touchdown or whatever, they always answer with some variation of "I was thinking how great this team is and how lucky I am to be a part of it, because the credit really goes to my teammates, our incredible coaching staff, and our wonderful fans."

They learn how to exhibit humility and act like gentlemen and not let the focus be on "me me me." That's a tradition at Alabama that began with Bear Bryant in 1958, and it has continued and persists today. Saban gets it, and it fits his philosophy and personality perfectly. Read anything about him written by a journalist who has spent more than an hour with him, and you will see the phrase "The Process" over and over. It's his thing, and he means it. Listen carefully to post-game interviews with him, and even when Alabama has just won a great victory, often he will mention the fundamentals and how his defense made a lot of mistakes, or the O-line needs to keep their heads focused on the play, and how much they can improve and how much work they have to do. He also says "I keep reminding my guys that there's 60 minutes of game to play" a lot, especially during halftime when a sideline reporter asks how it feels to be up 28-7 at the half.

CH

[Anaxagoras]

It's about The Process, the Whole Person, and playing smart, head-in-the-game, do-your-job fundamental football, 60 minutes at a time, and being a good sport and a gentleman while doing it.

Nice speech, Knute, but you may want to take it easy on the Kool Aid.

Sounds kinda like they used to praise St. Paterno doesn't it?

Is there a statue of coach Saban on the campus square yet?

[Cool Hand]

It's about The Process, the Whole Person, and playing smart, head-in-the-game, do-your-job fundamental football, 60 minutes at a time, and being a good sport and a gentleman while doing it.

Nice speech, Knute, but you may want to take it easy on the Kool Aid.

Sounds kinda like they used to praise St. Paterno doesn't it?

Is there a statue of coach Saban on the campus square yet?

That's a pretty cheap shot.

Anyway, his record and results speak for themselves. He is an extremely driven and disciplined man, and his talents and skills happen to be focused on college football. He would likely be extraordinarily successful in many other careers or occupations.

If you really are interested, there was this terrific piece in Fortune magazine about this time last year written by a guy who spent a part of a couple of days with him, but I've lost the link to the original. You'll have to make do with the reprint available at CNN Money:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/07/news/co ... index.html

You might note that even Bill Belichick takes advice from Nick Saban.

Saban has long been recognized as having a first-rate football mind. New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick -- himself the winner of a few championships -- hired Saban as his defensive coordinator when Belichick coached the Cleveland Browns in the early 1990s. He pays Saban the ultimate compliment: He copies him. "We talk on a pretty regular basis," says Belichick. "If I ask Nick a question and he says, 'Well, this is how we do it,' then I usually just cut to where he is and take that shortcut and say, 'Okay, we're going to do it this way.' I know that he's already gone through all the stages of thinking it through, and I would rather just get to the stage that he's at rather than waste the time figuring that I'm going to end up at that same point anyway."

CH

[Grammatron]

CH, I think you are indeed drinking the Kool Aid and at the same time hating on Manziel a bit much. Sure he is cocky and may have stepped over a line, but fuck man, what's the point of being that good and playing college football if you can't strut around a bit.

[Cool Hand]

CH, I think you are indeed drinking the Kool Aid and at the same time hating on Manziel a bit much. Sure he is cocky and may have stepped over a line, but fuck man, what's the point of being that good and playing college football if you can't strut around a bit.

Drinking what Kool Aid? I don't get that comment. I'm not claiming Nick Saban is god. I'm noting that Nick Saban is a gracious winner and a very driven coach and recruiter, and that he takes great care to mold his players into good citizens first. According to his philosophy, good football follows that. In that regard, he is very much following in Bear Bryant's shoes, and that is pretty close to what Bryant demanded of his players. He set the standard with regard to Alabama football being a team effort, not a showcase for breakout stars to brag or boast and for success to be attributed to team effort, not individual heroics. That tradition has continued for 55 years. It's a good tradition, in my book, and perfectly in keeping with good sportsmanship.

Manziel, on the other hand, is all about him. He doesn't give a fuck about his teammates or his team as a unit. He's there to stand out and be noticed.

As for being good or great and not, Alabama's first Heisman trophy winner Mark Ingram was about as talented and skilled a running back as the NCAA has seen in the past 25 years (post Hershel Walker), and he didn't strut or rub it in anyone's nose. He actually cried tears of joy and surprise when he won the Heisman. He's a tough guy, but his mama raised him right, and he always gave credit to his teammates and his coaching staff (and the fans too) when he made outstanding plays and had great games. Always.

Johnny Manziel is a phenomenon. No question about it. I've never seen anyone as well rounded as him and also quick and able to scramble as he does (how the fuck does he keep breaking tackles and sacks when any mere mortal would be down?) and make incredible, nearly impossible passes off the wrong foot that connect and are caught 45 yards down field as he does. I give him full credit for that. I just don't care for his personality.

I like how low key A.J. McCarron is by contrast. Notice how he echoes Coach Saban's views and approach in all his post game interviews. He is a good student of Saban and gets how to be an Alabama football team player. Coach Bryant would have been proud to have A.J. as his QB.

Hey, I grew up with Alabama football since I was old enough to crawl. It's in my blood. I'm biased, but not blind. And I hate it when Bama players fuck up and are selfish and taunt the crowd on the road or the opposing team, just as T.J. Yeldon did on Saturday. It cost his team 15 yards in an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. That shit doesn't fly at Alabama, and I'm very disappointed in him. Up until then, he had played outstanding football and contributed far more than his share to Bama's successes over the past two seasons (he's only a true sophomore). Costing your team 15 yards for a preventable penalty is stupid and selfish. I'm sure his teammates were pissed too. He pissed on their efforts and achievements when he did that.

CH

[Anaxagoras]

That's a pretty cheap shot.

You're right. I sorry. I didn't mean to imply that he is guilty in any way of the same things as Paterno. It's just about the way that some football coaches are practically deified by their fans. In Paterno's case someone even painted a mural of him with a halo, like he was some kind of saint. And there were plenty of fawning profiles about him in the press too.

Anyway, his record and results speak for themselves. He is an extremely driven and disciplined man, and his talents and skills happen to be focused on college football. He would likely be extraordinarily successful in many other careers or occupations.

If you really are interested, there was this terrific piece in Fortune magazine about this time last year written by a guy who spent a part of a couple of days with him, but I've lost the link to the original. You'll have to make do with the reprint available at CNN Money:

http://money.cnn.com/2012/09/07/news/co ... index.html

You might note that even Bill Belichick takes advice from Nick Saban.

Saban has long been recognized as having a first-rate football mind. New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick -- himself the winner of a few championships -- hired Saban as his defensive coordinator when Belichick coached the Cleveland Browns in the early 1990s. He pays Saban the ultimate compliment: He copies him. "We talk on a pretty regular basis," says Belichick. "If I ask Nick a question and he says, 'Well, this is how we do it,' then I usually just cut to where he is and take that shortcut and say, 'Okay, we're going to do it this way.' I know that he's already gone through all the stages of thinking it through, and I would rather just get to the stage that he's at rather than waste the time figuring that I'm going to end up at that same point anyway."

CH

It sounds like he is very good at his job. Again, I didn't mean to cast aspersions about his character.

[WildCat]

Football is elementally stupid. People that follow it are stupid. It is destroying the moral fabric of our country and should be outlawed. Football players should be forced to get real jobs like selling insurance door to door.

Your college team sucks, eh?

[Cool Hand]

Johnny Football's being a mere mortal began to show yesterday at College Station when Auburn stopped his ass and beat him and his Aggies at their home field (so much for that 12th man). He looked like he was crying after Auburn defensive end Dee Ford (6'2", 240lb.) nailed him for a big sack on the last drive, and on the very next play chased Manziel down from behind and tackled him carrying the ball rushing.

Texas A&M goes down again in 2013, at home, to a better football team from Alabama. Fuck you, Johnny.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... 265655.jpg

CH

[Grammatron]

You sure told him?

[Doctor X]

Hey, look, playing Apocalypse in 9/8 on the drums in my tighty-whities clearly compelled the Tigers to load the bases and Shane Victorino to hit a Grand Slam . . . so . . . like . . . SCIENCE!!!

--J.D.

P.S. Why, when lecturing on religions, I use sports analogies--we really think we have an influence on The Game.

[Cool Hand]

You sure told him?

No, just happy to see him get his comeuppance. The guy is slippery as hell in the pocket, but Auburn's defense sacked him twice. Them's good eatin'.

CH

[Grammatron]

You sure told him?

No, just happy to see him get his comeuppance. The guy is slippery as hell in the pocket, but Auburn's defense sacked him twice. Them's good eatin'.

CH

Comeuppances for what?

[Cool Hand]

You sure told him?

No, just happy to see him get his comeuppance. The guy is slippery as hell in the pocket, but Auburn's defense sacked him twice. Them's good eatin'.

CH

Comeuppances for what?

He's a dick, or haven't you heard or read any talk about him as a person? He's sort of the modern day version of Broadway Joe, only with any of the charm or charisma.

CH

[Grammatron]

You sure told him?

No, just happy to see him get his comeuppance. The guy is slippery as hell in the pocket, but Auburn's defense sacked him twice. Them's good eatin'.

CH

Comeuppances for what?

He's a dick, or haven't you heard or read any talk about him as a person? He's sort of the modern day version of Broadway Joe, only with any of the charm or charisma.

CH

That sums up most college athletes in Division I.

The fact that this dude got under your skin is hilarious.

[Cool Hand]

You sure told him?

No, just happy to see him get his comeuppance. The guy is slippery as hell in the pocket, but Auburn's defense sacked him twice. Them's good eatin'.

CH

Comeuppances for what?

He's a dick, or haven't you heard or read any talk about him as a person? He's sort of the modern day version of Broadway Joe, only with any of the charm or charisma.

CH

That sums up most college athletes in Division I.

The fact that this dude got under your skin is hilarious.

Do you follow college football? If you do, then you should recognize that my reaction to him is mild at best in comparison to most fans around here. College football in these parts is serious business. You may think I'm suggesting that in jest, but I'm not. It's not for nothing that Nick Saban is paid more than $5 mil a year, not to mention his endorsements for Ford, etc.

What I find hilarious is the attention paid to NFL games. You should attend your typical Sunday afternoon NFL game and then attend a typical Saturday afternoon big game in the SEC, particularly at Alabama, Auburn, or Georgia. I've been to all three stadiums, and there's nothing like it. A Titans game in Nashville, by comparison, was almost as tepid an event as watching a high school football game around here on a Friday night. Not to mention that the girl watching (including in the stands) at an SEC football game is spectacular.

CH

[Grammatron]

Do you follow college football? If you do, then you should recognize that my reaction to him is mild at best in comparison to most fans around here. College football in these parts is serious business. You may think I'm suggesting that in jest, but I'm not. It's not for nothing that Nick Saban is paid more than $5 mil a year, not to mention his endorsements for Ford, etc.

I follow college football a bit, nothing crazy but I know who top teams are and some match ups. Other than the controversy in the beginning of the season, the news about Johnny has been quiet. There was the autograph thing he mimed to some player, but once again, that was the beginning of the season and I have not seen him doing similar things since. To me it seems you are singling him out because he is not in Alabama and is in fact a threat to Alabama.

What I find hilarious is the attention paid to NFL games. You should attend your typical Sunday afternoon NFL game and then attend a typical Saturday afternoon big game in the SEC, particularly at Alabama, Auburn, or Georgia. I've been to all three stadiums, and there's nothing like it. A Titans game in Nashville, by comparison, was almost as tepid an event as watching a high school football game around here on a Friday night. Not to mention that the girl watching (including in the stands) at an SEC football game is spectacular.
CH

I've actually never been to an NFL game. There are no NFL teams in LA and the few opportunities I had to watch them in near by cities were too inconvenient at the time.

I have not been to an SEC game, however I have been to area college team games (UCLA and USC). I've also attended a Notre Dame game in Notre Dame. I realize how people feel about these things and I still find it hilarious that this dude got under your skin.

[jacks]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise you're after.

[Grammatron]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise your after.

I am not trolling, if that's what you are implying. Of all the College Football controversies over the years this is the one that made CH create this post. I just find that amusing.

[Cool Hand]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise your after.

I am not trolling, if that's what you are implying. Of all the College Football controversies over the years this is the one that made CH create this post. I just find that amusing.

You misunderstand. It's not whatever controversy you are referencing (is it the autographing thing?). It's his cocky hot shit attitude. He's a poor sport because he gloats and boasts. That's what I don't like about the guy. There's nothing more to it than that.

Compare with Mark Ingram, the running back from Alabama (by way of Michigan) who won the Heisman four years ago. He was awesome on the field and dominated play, but he didn't ever brag or boast, and he always credited his teammates and coaches and the fans in post game interviews. That's a good sport and a gracious winner. The dude cried on national TV when he won the Heisman, and those were genuine tears of joy and humility.

I don't like Johnny Football because he's a dick, nothing more to it than that.

CH

[Grammatron]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise your after.

I am not trolling, if that's what you are implying. Of all the College Football controversies over the years this is the one that made CH create this post. I just find that amusing.

You misunderstand. It's not whatever controversy you are referencing (is it the autographing thing?). It's his cocky hot shit attitude. He's a poor sport because he gloats and boasts. That's what I don't like about the guy. There's nothing more to it than that.

Compare with Mark Ingram, the running back from Alabama (by way of Michigan) who won the Heisman four years ago. He was awesome on the field and dominated play, but he didn't ever brag or boast, and he always credited his teammates and coaches and the fans in post game interviews. That's a good sport and a gracious winner. The dude cried on national TV when he won the Heisman, and those were genuine tears of joy and humility.

I don't like Johnny Football because he's a dick, nothing more to it than that.

CH

Maybe you have not come across many college level and professional athletes. The cocky, hot-shit, worship me attitude is average (if not overwhelming). Which is why I do not know why you are singling him out. Is it just because he played Alabama and lost?

[Cool Hand]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise your after.

I am not trolling, if that's what you are implying. Of all the College Football controversies over the years this is the one that made CH create this post. I just find that amusing.

You misunderstand. It's not whatever controversy you are referencing (is it the autographing thing?). It's his cocky hot shit attitude. He's a poor sport because he gloats and boasts. That's what I don't like about the guy. There's nothing more to it than that.

Compare with Mark Ingram, the running back from Alabama (by way of Michigan) who won the Heisman four years ago. He was awesome on the field and dominated play, but he didn't ever brag or boast, and he always credited his teammates and coaches and the fans in post game interviews. That's a good sport and a gracious winner. The dude cried on national TV when he won the Heisman, and those were genuine tears of joy and humility.

I don't like Johnny Football because he's a dick, nothing more to it than that.

CH

Maybe you have not come across many college level and professional athletes. The cocky, hot-shit, worship me attitude is average (if not overwhelming). Which is why I do not know why you are singling him out. Is it just because he played Alabama and lost?

Ah, you are not familiar with Alabama football then. The players at Alabama are definitely not cut from the cocky, hot-shit, worship me cloth. They are not allowed to behave like that and play at Alabama. Guys that do that get booted or do not play. The head coaches have enforced that code since Bear Bryant took over in 1958. Saban is like that too. He doesn't put up with players' bullshit. He wouldn't have Johnny Football in his program if he behaved like that, even if it cost his a game or three.

At Alabama, it is drilled into their heads every day and twice on Sunday that every play is a team effort. No points for showboating. Play for your teammates. Keep your head in the game because your teammates are counting on you.

CH

[Ronin]

You need to sharpen your stick grammy , don't seem to be getting the rise your after.

I am not trolling, if that's what you are implying. Of all the College Football controversies over the years this is the one that made CH create this post. I just find that amusing.

You misunderstand. It's not whatever controversy you are referencing (is it the autographing thing?). It's his cocky hot shit attitude. He's a poor sport because he gloats and boasts. That's what I don't like about the guy. There's nothing more to it than that.

Compare with Mark Ingram, the running back from Alabama (by way of Michigan) who won the Heisman four years ago. He was awesome on the field and dominated play, but he didn't ever brag or boast, and he always credited his teammates and coaches and the fans in post game interviews. That's a good sport and a gracious winner. The dude cried on national TV when he won the Heisman, and those were genuine tears of joy and humility.

I don't like Johnny Football because he's a dick, nothing more to it than that.

CH

Maybe you have not come across many college level and professional athletes. The cocky, hot-shit, worship me attitude is average (if not overwhelming). Which is why I do not know why you are singling him out. Is it just because he played Alabama and lost?

Ah, you are not familiar with Alabama football then. The players at Alabama are definitely not cut from the cocky, hot-shit, worship me cloth. They are not allowed to behave like that and play at Alabama. Guys that do that get booted or do not play. The head coaches have enforced that code since Bear Bryant took over in 1958. Saban is like that too. He doesn't put up with players' bullshit. He wouldn't have Johnny Football in his program if he behaved like that, even if it cost his a game or three.

At Alabama, it is drilled into their heads every day and twice on Sunday that every play is a team effort. No points for showboating. Play for your teammates. Keep your head in the game because your teammates are counting on you.

CH

It's something that's not really seen here, either. Granted, it's been awhile since OU has won a championship, and the Big 12 as a whole looks like shit this year, but Stoops does not put up with such things from his players, either. Every now and then you hear of a player getting in trouble in Norman (I don't know why a player would think they could get away with ANYTHING in Norman, those cops are the biggest pricks on the face of the planet), and every time those players are dealt with. Recently a player got in trouble and arrested for jacking it in public. Stoops immediately and indefinitely removed him from the program (translation--that player's OU career is done).

[Cool Hand]

Manziel has probably shot his future NFL career in the foot. Dumbass.

On yesterday's Jumbotron at the Texas A&M game, they showed excerpts from an interview with Johnny Manziel in which he reveals he would like to "party" with Charlie Sheen, Tiger Woods, and Rob Gronkowski. So?

So, that's not really smart if you're trying to impress NFL scouts who are looking at you to be a professional quarterback they are paying tens of millions of dollars for. What they likely hear in that statement and attitude is that you care more about being a rock star than a professional football player whose job it is to show up each Sunday afternoon to win games. Think of that in the context of something you might say in a job interview. Think that impresses the interviewer?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9888636

I repeat. He's an asshole.

CH

[Grammatron]

Manziel has probably shot his future NFL career in the foot. Dumbass.

On yesterday's Jumbotron at the Texas A&M game, they showed excerpts from an interview with Johnny Manziel in which he reveals he would like to "party" with Charlie Sheen, Tiger Woods, and Rob Gronkowski. So?

So, that's not really smart if you're trying to impress NFL scouts who are looking at you to be a professional quarterback they are paying tens of millions of dollars for. What they likely hear in that statement and attitude is that you care more about being a rock star than a professional football player whose job it is to show up each Sunday afternoon to win games. Think of that in the context of something you might say in a job interview. Think that impresses the interviewer?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9888636

I repeat. He's an asshole.

CH

See CH, this is exactly my point. If you honestly think every organization in NFL would pass on him strictly because he said that, you can't possibly be any more wrong. The organization who need a quality position players will overlook everything up to murder allegation. Hanging out with Tiger Woods and Charlie Sheen? Hell, that might be a positive for some recruiters.

[Doctor X]

Well, to be fair, that the Oakland Raiders would sign him is not exactly an "endorsement for excellence."

I mean . . . they have been inquiring about the possibility for parole on Aaron Hernandez and Rae Carruth. . . .

--J. "Just WIN Baby!" D.

[Cool Hand]

Manziel has probably shot his future NFL career in the foot. Dumbass.

On yesterday's Jumbotron at the Texas A&M game, they showed excerpts from an interview with Johnny Manziel in which he reveals he would like to "party" with Charlie Sheen, Tiger Woods, and Rob Gronkowski. So?

So, that's not really smart if you're trying to impress NFL scouts who are looking at you to be a professional quarterback they are paying tens of millions of dollars for. What they likely hear in that statement and attitude is that you care more about being a rock star than a professional football player whose job it is to show up each Sunday afternoon to win games. Think of that in the context of something you might say in a job interview. Think that impresses the interviewer?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9888636

I repeat. He's an asshole.

CH

See CH, this is exactly my point. If you honestly think every organization in NFL would pass on him strictly because he said that, you can't possibly be any more wrong. The organization who need a quality position players will overlook everything up to murder allegation. Hanging out with Tiger Woods and Charlie Sheen? Hell, that might be a positive for some recruiters.

Well, you obviously didn't watch the video in which two former marquis college quarterbacks essentially said the same thing I did.

I'll grant you that maybe there are some NFL scouts that might be willing to overlook his party proclivities, but chances are he's just cost himself millions of dollars in the future. Why? Because at least some of those scouts willing to engage in a bidding war over him are likely turned off by his priorities and are not willing to commit tens of millions of their organization's dollars to a guy who seems less than committed to being a pro QB and more committed to living the life of a rock star.

Here's some contrast for some perspective. Take Nick Saban, a man with a Herculean work ethic. When the guy is not coaching, he's out recruiting high school prospects to come play for him. He's also a dad to minor children.

Earlier last week, Gary Danielson and Vern Lundquist, long time CBS sports broadcasters and former football players, spent some time with Nick in Tuscaloosa before Alabama played (and clobbered) Tennessee this Saturday. They asked Nick about next week's bye week before Alabama plays LSU and how the timing was perfect to allow Nick to go trick or treating with his kids on Thursday night.

His answer? "Sorry, guys, but I'll be on the road recruiting."

That's the kind of work ethic that produces a world class football team. It's not magic. It's his dedication and work ethic than wins. Johnny Football is winning at Texas A&M on pure talent and ability right now. He lacks the same work ethic Saban has, and that point is not lost on NFL scouts and general managers. Also, he's lying his ass off about his height, claiming to be 6 feet tall. Bullshit. That guy is maybe 5'9", 5'10" at best, and about 180-185 lbs. He's not big enough for the NFL in 2014.

You're wrong, again, Grammy.

CH

[Grammatron]

Well, you obviously didn't watch the video in which two former marquis college quarterbacks essentially said the same thing I did.

No need to, my point would remain the same.

I'll grant you that maybe there are some NFL scouts that might be willing to overlook his party proclivities, but chances are he's just cost himself millions of dollars in the future. Why? Because at least some of those scouts willing to engage in a bidding war over him are likely turned off by his priorities and are not willing to commit tens of millions of their organization's dollars to a guy who seems less than committed to being a pro QB and more committed to living the life of a rock star.

Because an NFL team has to win games. St. Louis Rams tried to get Farve to come back to QB the team because the availability of solid QBs is incredibly slim. If Manziel can show that he can play in the NFL system there will be a "bidding war" over him, and most of his short comings and frailties will be overlooked.

Here's some contrast for some perspective. Take Nick Saban, a man with a Herculean work ethic. When the guy is not coaching, he's out recruiting high school prospects to come play for him. He's also a dad to minor children.

K.

Earlier last week, Gary Danielson and Vern Lundquist, long time CBS sports broadcasters and former football players, spent some time with Nick in Tuscaloosa before Alabama played (and clobbered) Tennessee this Saturday. They asked Nick about next week's bye week before Alabama plays LSU and how the timing was perfect to allow Nick to go trick or treating with his kids on Thursday night.

His answer? "Sorry, guys, but I'll be on the road recruiting."

K

That's the kind of work ethic that produces a world class football team. It's not magic. It's his dedication and work ethic than wins. Johnny Football is winning at Texas A&M on pure talent and ability right now. He lacks the same work ethic Saban has, and that point is not lost on NFL scouts and general managers. Also, he's lying his ass off about his height, claiming to be 6 feet tall. Bullshit. That guy is maybe 5'9", 5'10" at best, and about 180-185 lbs. He's not big enough for the NFL in 2014.

That last part (about the height) sounds like petty bullshit and without evidence it makes your points less valid.

You're wrong, again, Grammy.

CH

Maybe, but we will see not too long from now during the NFL draft.

[Pyrrho]

/peanut gallery/
IIRC AFAIK in high school and college sports, nobody likes a hot dog. If a player is talented enough and charismatic enough and has sufficient leadership skills he might be able to get the rest of the team to "play along," so to speak. If he's talented and has charisma but has the leadership skills of a garden slug, he may find himself at the mercy of the opposing team's defensive linemen, because his blockers might decide to educate him about the importance of teamwork by not protecting his hot dog ass.

I haven't watched any Johnny Football in action so I have no idea if he's a hot dog or not. I'm just talking general principles here, Boss.

[Grammatron]

/peanut gallery/
IIRC AFAIK in high school and college sports, nobody likes a hot dog. If a player is talented enough and charismatic enough and has sufficient leadership skills he might be able to get the rest of the team to "play along," so to speak. If he's talented and has charisma but has the leadership skills of a garden slug, he may find himself at the mercy of the opposing team's defensive linemen, because his blockers might decide to educate him about the importance of teamwork by not protecting his hot dog ass.

I haven't watched any Johnny Football in action so I have no idea if he's a hot dog or not. I'm just talking general principles here, Boss.

I can't disagree with that.

Johnny Football is getting all this attention because he is the only freshman to win the Heisman Trophy and he got in trouble for selling autographs and subsequently miming signing to an opposing player. However, I have not see him throw his team under the bus nor suggest he is the team and he is carrying the rest of them.

[Cool Hand]

Well, you obviously didn't watch the video in which two former marquis college quarterbacks essentially said the same thing I did.

No need to, my point would remain the same.

Dude, that's why I put this link to the video in there. I got the idea from them. They made the point that it showed really bad judgment on Manziel's part to say those things in the first place if he's hoping to have a career in the NFL, and it was incredibly stupid of the PR folks at A&M to allow those quotes to be displayed on the Jumbotron at their own home stadium during a televised home game.

They also said that those kind of things tend to turn off NFL scouts and GMs. I didn't make that shit up. The inference I added is that I think the reason those things might turn off scouts and GMs is because they don't want to commit to a multi-year contract for tens of millions of dollars for a marquis quarterback who just wants to be a rock star and not a workhorse committed to playing the game and winning. Are you not getting that point?

Because an NFL team has to win games. St. Louis Rams tried to get Farve to come back to QB the team because the availability of solid QBs is incredibly slim. If Manziel can show that he can play in the NFL system there will be a "bidding war" over him, and most of his short comings and frailties will be overlooked.

Well, that's the whole rub, isn't it? Can he play in the NFL system? With the caliber of athleticism in the NFL today, I contend that you can't be partying with Charlie Sheen on Friday or Saturday night and playing top notch football on Sunday every week. They are mutually incompatible. So the question is really, "Is Manziel serious about committing to playing NFL level football, or does he care more to be like his idol Charlie Tiger Blood Sheen and hang out with supermodels on his arm?"

Sure, Tom Brady married a supermodel, but he shows up and does the work and has won three Super Bowl rings. Manziel hasn't earned that right yet.

That last part (about the height) sounds like petty bullshit and without evidence it makes your points less valid.

It's not petty bullshit. It's directly relevant to whether or not he can play in the NFL. I'm sure you've noticed the trend among QBs is to be taller and bigger than ever. They have to be these days in order to see over the O-line and defenders to their receivers down field. Also, they need to be big because defensive ends and linemen are fucking huge and will kill little guys, even ones who scramble like nobody's business, as he does.

Evidence on his height? Watch any televised game and compare him to other players on the field. Also, look at Manziel's head in relation to Nick Saban's head while they are standing next to each other in the pic in the first post. Saban is 5'9" and 170 lbs. There is no fucking way Manziel is taller than him by more than an inch, if that. Manziel is too small to play QB the NFL. Is that being petty about his character? Hell no. It has nothing to do with it. It does have everything to do with his prospects as a QB in the NFL, however, which is the context in which I brought it up. I didn't do it to be petty; I did it because it is relevant to whether he has a future in the NFL. Obviously he recognized its relevance too, or he wouldn't be lying about his height. He claims to be 6 feet tall. Again, look at the photo with 5'9" Saban and tell me with a straight face that Manziel is 3 inches taller than him.

CH

[Grammatron]

Evidence on his height? Watch any televised game and compare him to other players on the field. Also, look at Manziel's head in relation to Nick Saban's head while they are standing next to each other in the pic in the first post. Saban is 5'9" and 170 lbs. There is no fucking way Manziel is taller than him by more than an inch, if that. Manziel is too small to play QB the NFL. Is that being petty about his character? Hell no. It has nothing to do with it. It does have everything to do with his prospects as a QB in the NFL, however, which is the context in which I brought it up. I didn't do it to be petty; I did it because it is relevant to whether he has a future in the NFL. Obviously he recognized its relevance too, or he wouldn't be lying about his height. He claims to be 6 feet tall. Again, look at the photo with 5'9" Saban and tell me with a straight face that Manziel is 3 inches taller than him.

CH

Seriously? You want to use video and photographs of unknown perspective and manipulation as evidence? Disappointing.

[Cool Hand]

/peanut gallery/
IIRC AFAIK in high school and college sports, nobody likes a hot dog. If a player is talented enough and charismatic enough and has sufficient leadership skills he might be able to get the rest of the team to "play along," so to speak. If he's talented and has charisma but has the leadership skills of a garden slug, he may find himself at the mercy of the opposing team's defensive linemen, because his blockers might decide to educate him about the importance of teamwork by not protecting his hot dog ass.

I haven't watched any Johnny Football in action so I have no idea if he's a hot dog or not. I'm just talking general principles here, Boss.

I can't disagree with that.

Johnny Football is getting all this attention because he is the only freshman to win the Heisman Trophy and he got in trouble for selling autographs and subsequently miming signing to an opposing player. However, I have not see him throw his team under the bus nor suggest he is the team and he is carrying the rest of them.

He is getting all this attention (the same that he got last year, Grammy) because he is so fucking good on the field. I've watched world class college football all my life, and I've never seen anyone as quick as him or with the kind of sixth sense about how to break tackles and know everything that is going on down field.

It is true that winning the Heisman as a freshman increases his stock and the interest in him, but let me tell you buddy, he was getting tons of attention from the college football world last year, especially after he and his team (although largely it was him) beat Alabama last November.

He deserves the attention for his skills and talent. I've never questioned his ability or prowess. He's phenomenal.

He has suggested he's not a team player. It was well publicized earlier this summer that he had Tweeted that he hated playing at College Station and couldn't wait to get out of there. Not cool to bite the hand that feeds you, at least not publicly.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... ge-station

he Twitter account of Texas A&M Aggies sophomore quarterback Johnny Manziel has made news before. Early Sunday morning, a deleted tweet caused a bit of a stir.

According to a Dallas Morning News report, Manziel tweeted, "Bulls--- like tonight is a reason why I can't wait to leave college station...whenever it may be.

While we don't know why Johnny Football decided to tweet his frustrations to his 360,000-plus followers, maybe it's time for Manziel to lay low until August rolls around, Edward Aschoff writes.

The post was deleted shortly thereafter but was followed up by what appeared to be a related tweet. It read, "Don't ever forget that I love A&M with all of my heart, but please please walk a day in my shoes."

CH

[Cool Hand]

Evidence on his height? Watch any televised game and compare him to other players on the field. Also, look at Manziel's head in relation to Nick Saban's head while they are standing next to each other in the pic in the first post. Saban is 5'9" and 170 lbs. There is no fucking way Manziel is taller than him by more than an inch, if that. Manziel is too small to play QB the NFL. Is that being petty about his character? Hell no. It has nothing to do with it. It does have everything to do with his prospects as a QB in the NFL, however, which is the context in which I brought it up. I didn't do it to be petty; I did it because it is relevant to whether he has a future in the NFL. Obviously he recognized its relevance too, or he wouldn't be lying about his height. He claims to be 6 feet tall. Again, look at the photo with 5'9" Saban and tell me with a straight face that Manziel is 3 inches taller than him.

CH

Seriously? You want to use video and photographs of unknown perspective and manipulation as evidence? Disappointing.

Oh, for fuck's sake, Grammy, have you even watched the guy play live on television? I have, and after a couple of dozen hours of live, unmanipulated TV video watching, it's clear he's much shorter than he claims.

CH

[Grammatron]

Evidence on his height? Watch any televised game and compare him to other players on the field. Also, look at Manziel's head in relation to Nick Saban's head while they are standing next to each other in the pic in the first post. Saban is 5'9" and 170 lbs. There is no fucking way Manziel is taller than him by more than an inch, if that. Manziel is too small to play QB the NFL. Is that being petty about his character? Hell no. It has nothing to do with it. It does have everything to do with his prospects as a QB in the NFL, however, which is the context in which I brought it up. I didn't do it to be petty; I did it because it is relevant to whether he has a future in the NFL. Obviously he recognized its relevance too, or he wouldn't be lying about his height. He claims to be 6 feet tall. Again, look at the photo with 5'9" Saban and tell me with a straight face that Manziel is 3 inches taller than him.

CH

Seriously? You want to use video and photographs of unknown perspective and manipulation as evidence? Disappointing.

Oh, for fuck's sake, Grammy, have you even watched the guy play live on television? I have, and after a couple of dozen hours of live, unmanipulated TV video watching, it's clear he's much shorter than he claims.

CH

The only way to show his height is go up to him with a ruler. Everything else is speculation.

The whole height thing and being good in the NFL is not something I entirely agree with personally, but that's a different conversation all together.

[Cool Hand]

Evidence on his height? Watch any televised game and compare him to other players on the field. Also, look at Manziel's head in relation to Nick Saban's head while they are standing next to each other in the pic in the first post. Saban is 5'9" and 170 lbs. There is no fucking way Manziel is taller than him by more than an inch, if that. Manziel is too small to play QB the NFL. Is that being petty about his character? Hell no. It has nothing to do with it. It does have everything to do with his prospects as a QB in the NFL, however, which is the context in which I brought it up. I didn't do it to be petty; I did it because it is relevant to whether he has a future in the NFL. Obviously he recognized its relevance too, or he wouldn't be lying about his height. He claims to be 6 feet tall. Again, look at the photo with 5'9" Saban and tell me with a straight face that Manziel is 3 inches taller than him.

CH

Seriously? You want to use video and photographs of unknown perspective and manipulation as evidence? Disappointing.

Oh, for fuck's sake, Grammy, have you even watched the guy play live on television? I have, and after a couple of dozen hours of live, unmanipulated TV video watching, it's clear he's much shorter than he claims.

CH

The only way to show his height is go up to him with a ruler. Everything else is speculation.

Well, yeah, if you want to take the "debate" about his height to Clausian levels. Otherwise, it's a damn good educated guess than he's a good bit shorter than he claims. Unless you insist that you don't know Tom Cruise is a short fucker because you personally have not stood next to him with a yardstick or ruler.

I don't think you're that obstinate.

The whole height thing and being good in the NFL is not something I entirely agree with personally, but that's a different conversation all together.

It is a different discussion, I suppose, but I think the reality of playing QB in the NFL in 2013 and 2014 is that you need to be about as tall as your short to medium receivers. I think 6'2"+ is getting to be the norm. There are several guys who are 6'3" and 6'4", and even 6'5" at QB. And the younger ones are not skinny or wiry. It's a passing league, and passing QBs are getting taller.

CH

[Grammatron]

Well, yeah, if you want to take the "debate" about his height to Clausian levels. Otherwise, it's a damn good educated guess than he's a good bit shorter than he claims. Unless you insist that you don't know Tom Cruise is a short fucker because you personally have not stood next to him with a yardstick or ruler.

I don't think you're that obstinate.

CH

The college stats give his height, the only way to disprove that is to measure him using an independent body. Since your claim that the college measurement is wrong has no such evidence to support itself, I am forced to dismiss it. I don't think I am being difficult here in asking for evidence.